What Cartridge Does This Belong In?

Mitty38

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
Almost looks like an hunting type bullet uncle used to load for his M/8 1888 Gewehr German surplus rifle. Accept he ran his at .317. I believe that was a black powder load.
Wish I had that rifle.
 
Bret4207

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
RicinYakima said:
I think it is a 1920's Belding and Mull design for the 30 WCF Short Range. FWIW
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Looks B+M-ish, thats for sure. .316 is fat, but you never know what the intention was. As someone else mentioned, alloy can grow. That's a lot for a 30, but without knowing just what it is we're just guessing.
 
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L Ross

L Ross

Well-Known Member
Mitty38 said:
Almost looks like an hunting type bullet uncle used to load for his M/8 1888 Gewehr German surplus rifle. Accept he ran his at .317. I believe that was a black powder load.
Wish I had that rifle.
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I have an 88 Commission rifle. Homelier than a mud fence. I used to shoot a plain base .321" 200 grain Paul Jones schuetzen bullet in it with 14.0 grains of 4227. Reasonably accurate and my buddy Long Hunter and I irritated some guys at a shoot one day by ringing the 165 yard skunk target 12 shots in a row, exchanging the rifle between shots, off hand. A bystander shook his head and declared his MVA rear sight cost 3 times what a Commission Rifle was worth and he could not hit the skunk at all.

Then one day I tried that long Lyman H.Guy Loverin styled pointed 8 m/m bullet long discontinued, about 220 grains and checked and sized to .324", (maybe a 323471?). Anyway, now it really shot well, same powder charge. But as the sights get older my perfect eyes are having a hard time getting a good sight picture. I mean the sights are from 1890, no wonder they are getting fuzzier.

As far as black powder Mitty, maybe he did, but I don't think it is a good candidate for BP. Small bore, tight twist, no thanks. And as far as how strong they are, well the Germans gave them to their Turk allies in WWI and I don't think the Turks or anyone over there since hesitated to stick whatever mil-surp 8x57 ammo fit in the chamber including the hot German machine gun ammo.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
.303 Brit, .303 Savage, or like Bret noted any "fat 30" or metric equivalent like 7.62x54R or Argie.
 
Mitty38

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
L Ross said:
I have an 88 Commission rifle. Homelier than a mud fence. I used to shoot a plain base .321" 200 grain Paul Jones schuetzen bullet in it with 14.0 grains of 4227. Reasonably accurate and my buddy Long Hunter and I irritated some guys at a shoot one day by ringing the 165 yard skunk target 12 shots in a row, exchanging the rifle between shots, off hand. A bystander shook his head and declared his MVA rear sight cost 3 times what a Commission Rifle was worth and he could not hit the skunk at all.

Then one day I tried that long Lyman H.Guy Loverin styled pointed 8 m/m bullet long discontinued, about 220 grains and checked and sized to .324", (maybe a 323471?). Anyway, now it really shot well, same powder charge. But as the sights get older my perfect eyes are having a hard time getting a good sight picture. I mean the sights are from 1890, no wonder they are getting fuzzier.

As far as black powder Mitty, maybe he did, but I don't think it is a good candidate for BP. Small bore, tight twist, no thanks. And as far as how strong they are, well the Germans gave them to their Turk allies in WWI and I don't think the Turks or anyone over there since hesitated to stick whatever mil-surp 8x57 ammo fit in the chamber including the hot German machine gun ammo.
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Well sometimes the memory is not so good. Been at least 10 years gone. Thanks for the info.
 
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Ian

Ian

Notorious member
L Ross said:
I have an 88 Commission rifle. Homelier than a mud fence. I used to shoot a plain base .321" 200 grain Paul Jones schuetzen bullet in it with 14.0 grains of 4227. Reasonably accurate and my buddy Long Hunter and I irritated some guys at a shoot one day by ringing the 165 yard skunk target 12 shots in a row, exchanging the rifle between shots, off hand. A bystander shook his head and declared his MVA rear sight cost 3 times what a Commission Rifle was worth and he could not hit the skunk at all.

Then one day I tried that long Lyman H.Guy Loverin styled pointed 8 m/m bullet long discontinued, about 220 grains and checked and sized to .324", (maybe a 323471?). Anyway, now it really shot well, same powder charge. But as the sights get older my perfect eyes are having a hard time getting a good sight picture. I mean the sights are from 1890, no wonder they are getting fuzzier.

As far as black powder Mitty, maybe he did, but I don't think it is a good candidate for BP. Small bore, tight twist, no thanks. And as far as how strong they are, well the Germans gave them to their Turk allies in WWI and I don't think the Turks or anyone over there since hesitated to stick whatever mil-surp 8x57 ammo fit in the chamber including the hot German machine gun ammo.
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You really should write a book. I can see a collection of random, one-page short stories about random (mis?)adventures put together as a sort of light-hearted memoir.
 
smokeywolf

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
Ian said:
You really should write a book. I can see a collection of random, one-page short stories about random (mis?)adventures put together as a sort of light-hearted memoir.
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Having spent a part of my young adulthood there, I can assure you that just his law enforcement days could easily take up 2/3 of the book.
 
358156 hp

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
8x51 Mauser was originally a .316 bore. Plus 8mm Mauser was introduced as a .318 bore until being updated in 1905 to .323. There was also a hodgpodge of "Rook" rifles in the .32 caliber range as well.
 
Mitty38

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
Oh boy, now we've gone and done it. LOL
A lot of good info, conversation so far.
I can see the road of variation conversation ahead.
Manufacturing tolerances, chamber differences. Yep it's coming. The 3 paragraph dissertation.

Ok, now I am buckled in and have my popcorn ready. ;)
Might just learn a few things.
 
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R

richhodg66

Well-Known Member
The original loading for it was a 190 grain bullet at 1900 FPS, supposedly, this made it a better killer of big game than the 170 in the .30-30.

That 190 grain at 1900 FPS is easily doable in either cartidge with cast.

I like 99s and have a few. It's on my bucket list to kill a deer with each of the Savage proprietary cartridges; .303, .300, .250 and .22 High Power. So far, I've only done it with the .300 (with cast). I need to get back to it. My .303 is a 99H, saddle carbine variant, but is a good shooter with cast, it'll probably be the next 99 in the chute for deer season.
 
Glaciers

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
I haven’t looked for a while but Graf & Sons had 303 S brass. $44.99 for 50 in stock
 
Bret4207

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Ian said:
Huh, I always thought it was a .311, thanks for the correction.
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There were apparently at least a few loadings early on that had .311 bullets. Didn't belive it until I saw the pics and found contemporary writings that noted this. Confusing!
 
Bret4207

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
fiver said:
the 303's bullets were 311 the bore was 308.
it was one of the trick's Arthur used to get the 303 to look better than the 30-30, he knew even back then that 2400 looked a lot better than 2300.
case size killed him, so pressure was his friend.
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SOME loadings were .311 early on. That practice doesn't appear to have lasted real long. OTOH, loading the 30-30 with .307 bullets lasted into the 70's/80's at least as I still have a box of .307 Sierras and they are labeled for the 30-30!
 
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