wheeler fire lapping kit

[Tomme boy]

I have the kit coming. I want to try to smooth up a couple of throats in a few rifles.

Here is a brand new SS melonite 18" 223 wylde 1-8tw. This is only been fired by the maker. I went out a few days ago and ran almost 50 rnds through it. It removed the black coating inside but did not wear the throat in much.


I want to see if that ridge will get smoothed over. From what I am seeing on a bunch of forums this has been going on for a while now. I want to see if it will get a little more accurate with some of the varmint bullets I tried. I had a couple of smoke trails heading down range the other day. That ridge must be causing it. I did not take anymore pics but the barrel was heavily copper fouled all the way down. I got that removed.

Now what I am asking is for anyone that has shot these, how many of each grit should I do? I think I will just do it in the basement like I did with a 9mm that had an issue. i used 0.7gr bullseye for that. It would jst let the bullet pass through. 0.6gr would stick some of the bullets in the barrel. So what do you think would be about right for a 223 and a 65gr powder coated bullet to pass all the way out? I am going to try the 0.7gr first.

Then I have my 350 Legend. It has a spot about in the middle that fouls VERY BAD. Solid copper in the bore and grove. It is about 3-4" long. I think just 1 or 2 of the coarse then go straight to the fine.

I am going to have the bore scope with me so I can check after each shot. I know these can make you have a really bad day if not checking how much is being removed.

 

[Jeff H]

Tommy, that "ridge" MAY wear down some, but I'd be afraid it would be more likely to scrape off the abrasive, while everything around it wears.

I've only done this myself a couple times, but with revolvers and using lead bullets, so maybe my (very) limited experience does not apply.

I know it's a pain in the neck, but could you try for a warranty repair and save some primers for when the offending feature is gone and it's more likely to shoot better and foul less? This is not to say that the barrel might not benefit from lapping after someone runs a reamer back in there to get rid of that ridge.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Never fire lapped. Most aggressive I have done is JB Bore paste on a mop.

Good luck

CW

 

[Matt]

I’ve used the LBT system a bit and have learned a few things;

Go slow. Bore appearance often has no relationship to accuracy. Clean well and shoot for accuracy after 5, but no more than 10 shots.

On hard modern barrels using jacketed bullets “seem” to work better. But I’d follow the manufacturer’s instructions and not my impression

On older center fire and all rimfire barrels leas bullets seem to work best, soft lead they “slug” up and lap well.

The beauty of this is the LBT system has abrasive that wears and does most of its work in cylinder throats and chamber throats where it’s normally needed. I hope the system you’re looking at has the same effect.

I’ve seen some moderate improvement in an ‘03 Springfield, Opened up cylinder throats on a .45 Colt Blackhawk, hundreds of rounds, finally finished with jacketed bullets. Most spectacular was a Remington 581 .22 that was mediocre and now shoots under an inch with all ammunition and a1/2 inch with stuff it likes at 50 yards. Only took 15 shots and easy to do. Dip the bullet in the jar and carefully chamber.

Good luck

 

[Ian]

I'm no expert either, but have a little experience with fire lapping and there are some basic things to consider. Jacketed lapping bullets don't touch very much of the inside of the barrel and need to be fired at full power levels so the bullets upset as much as possible and lap the most area of the bore. They still won't get the corners of the grooves and in my opinion are only suitable for lapping barrels which will ONLY see jacketed bullets that touch the same areas as the laps.

If you're going to shoot cast, you need to lap with cast. Also, if you want the throat smoothed out beyond the .224" part, you MUST use cast. Cast bullet laps do best when made of pure lead and fired with squib loads which just barely get the bullet out of the barrel (think 5-600 fps).

If you're trying to remove tight places in the bore, again, use dead-soft lead laps. The soft lead doesn't re-expand after passing a restriction, therefore it only works the restriction.

I'll see if I can find photos of lead-lapped throats and the limited places jacketed laps touch. I've done two 5.56 barrels and both were improved with a combination of Tubbs and lead laps.

The sharp edge where the reamer stopped would be smoothed by either lead or jax laps, but if it is only on one side, your chamber is crooked in a big way and you might as well ditch the barrel.

 

[Ian]

This is what I meant that jax don't touch the whole bore.

This is what low-velocity lead laps did afterward to the same barrel:



Here's a Marlin 30-30 throat after lead lapping:

 

[Rockydoc]

I was planning to tell of my experience and suggestions, but Ian beat me to it and did a better job.
I removed the choke where the barrel is screwed into the frame on a S&W K 38 using Beartooth Bullets kit, which worked fine. I stuck a bullet in the barrel with a Tubbs kit bullet and won't try that again. No problem that though, since I pretty much only shoot cast any more.

 

[Ian]

The Tubb's instructions I read state to use at minimum book starting jacketed loads for their bullets. Sticktion is a problem with jax and they don't upset at all at lower pressures and barely upset at full pressure, but at least it's as much as factory jacketed loads will upset their bullets and that's what most people will be shooting regularly after the lapping bullets.

 

[Brad]

I used instructions from Beartooth Bullets. 320 grit silicon carbide in grease. Roll firmly into a very soft bullet and shoot at air gun speed. Make sure to shoot so you can see the impact to know if you stick a bullet. Clean well after 5-6 shots and check progress.
Soft bullets has little memory so when it squeezes down it stays smaller. This is how it laps out tight spots.
A Ruger SS revolver will need a larger grit, like 240, for a bit. Even then it will take more lapping than anything else. That stuff is abrasion resistant as hell.

 

[Ian]

Ruger SS is sintered pixie dust alloyed with dragon piss and zircon-kryptonite. 240 will cut for the first inch.

 

[Tomme boy]

l I shot a few of the 220. I started with a 65gr mp bullet that was powder coated. I shot 3 of these with 1.9gr bullseye. I tried to shoot a 0.9gr bullseye but the bullet made it to the throat but that was it. Then went to 1.5gr and it made it about half way. 1.9 then shot them out.

I cleaned the barrel really well and it did not look like it did anything to the leade. So I got out some hornady 55gr sp. The 1.9 made it just into the leade. Pushed it back out and went to 2.5gr. Still did not make it all the way. 3.1 gr makes it out. I ran 3 of these with the 220 then 6 of the 600grit. The 3 of the 220 really knocked the edge off the leade. The 600 cleaned it up well. If I make it down to the basement I will get a pic.

Cant stay up too late. Headed to Milwaukie and Kenosha in the morning. There is a really good meat market for brats and sausage we go to. Then head down to Kenosha to a Italian grocery store. Awesome food and chesses that can only be found there.

 

[Ian]

Powder coated laps? How did you get the abrasive to embed?

 

[Tomme boy]

rolled the bullets on the steel plates like they said.

 

[Jeff H]

Hmmm,.....

I wonder,....

What if one were to mix silicon-carbide dust in with PC powder, coat and bake, the fire lap without the mess...

Just a thought. Maybe a crazy thought, but a thought.

 

[Brad]

Problem with jacketed is that they are smaller than bore diameter and therefore polish the lands far more than the grooves. The also have some rebound when squeezed. This means every time they go they a tight spot they quickly rebound to initial size- this means they simply polish the high spots same as the low spots.

A tight fitting soft bullet eliminated tight spots- when squeezed down it stays smaller and laps far less after the tight spot. They also fill the entire bore so everything is polished, even the corners of the lands.

Jacketed will smooth a rough forcing cone and throat but they are not going to eliminate tight spots or rough spots in the grooves as well as a soft lead slug.

 

[Rockydoc]

The grit coated soft bullets will lose some of its abrasiveness as it goes down the barrel resulting in a barrel that chokes down as goes from breech to muzzle. That is desirable, especially for cast bullets.

 

[358156 hp]

There's a huge amount of excellent information in this thread. When I lapped my Super Redhawk, I ended up tapering the barrel a bit because I was removing thread choke at the frame juncture. The first couple of inches of the barrel was noticeably more polished than the rest of the bore. The rest of the bore was relatively untouched. That was about perfect, and that revolver shot very, very well. Then I sold it a year or so later. That was one I should have kept.

 

[seagiant1]

Ruger SS is sintered pixie dust alloyed with dragon piss and zircon-kryptonite. 240 will cut for the first inch.

Hi,
LOL!

Didn't Veral Smith, POUR, a lead lap, and lap a barrel, that way?

Can't find his book right now, and my memory, not so good???

 

[RicinYakima]

Didn't Veral Smith, POUR, a lead lap, and lap a barrel, that way?

That is the way rifled barrels have been lapped for the last 300-400 years, the poured lead lap.