Why I love the 308 Winchester

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Smokeless powder was certainly a major turning point in the history of firearms. In the late 1800’s, militaries around the world, but initially mostly in western Europe, raced to take advantage of this new technology. Smokeless powder and strong actions allowed for much higher velocities and smaller projectiles, which in turn allowed for greatly flatter trajectories. The initial theory was that these new weapons would result in combat at far greater ranges than before. Cartridges and rifles of that time reflect that dogma. Large case capacities and sights graduated out beyond 1000 yards were the norm. The adoption of spitzer bullets only served to reinforce these beliefs.

Going into the Great War (Later to be called WWI), most of the involved nations were solidly onboard with the dogma of combat at long ranges. Cartridges such as the American .30-06, the British .303, the German 8mm Mauser, the Russian 7.62 x 54R and others support the conventional wisdom of the day. When that horrific global conflict was over, about the only nation with the economic ability to adopt a new main rifle was the U.S.A. There wasn’t a huge rush to adopt the .276 Pedersen, but it was a step in the direction of reducing the length of the primary military cartridge. General MacArthur put the brakes on the adoption of a new cartridge, and we retained the .30-06. (massive amounts of stockpiled ammunition and a later economic depression showed that decision was a wise one). The M1 Garand would be chambered for the existing .30-06 cartridge.

Even before the second world war was over, it was painfully obvious that the extreme performance levels of the long cartridges were just not needed. The longer cartridges were not bad, they were just far more cartridge than necessary. There are significant advantages to adopting a shorter cartridge and that is what happened.

Ultimately the T-65E cartridge became the basis for the 308 Winchester and the 7.62 NATO (The commercial 308 Win actually came out first in 1952 ).

The 308 Winchester went on to become an enormously successful cartridge and for good reason. The 308 Win. (or the 7.62 NATO) delivers outstanding performance. Yes, if the ranges are really long and you’re using bullets over 180 grains – the extra case capacity of the .30-06 allows you to take advantage of those heavier bullets. But inside of 600 yards, with bullets around 150-170 grains, the 308 will do everything the .30-06 will do.

Almost immediately after the release of the 308 Win, we got the 243 Winchester and the 358 Winchester (both in 1955). The wildcat 7mm-08 and the 6.5-08 both eventually became legitimate commercial cartridges. The 338 Federal rounds out the cartridges that made the leap to legitimate commercial cartridges from the 308 Winchester.

I make no effort to conceal my admiration for the short actions. My admiration for the short action cartridges does not require the disparagement of the long action cartridges.

Not only did the 308 Winchester become the basis for 5 other commercial cartridges (and undoubtedly some other wildcats) it is the epitome of efficiency. The 308 Winchester is an incredibly versatile cartridge. The 7mm-08 is a close second in performance and the modern-day stand-in for the 7mm Mauser. There’s a LOT to like in the 308 Winchester.
 
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RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
What kept the 30/06 alive was its use in machine guns. The 7.62 NATO and the M60 were and are 2/3 of a .30 Browning, from personal experience. That is why we have the SAW for troops and the 50 BMG for a machine gun.
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
What kept the 30/06 alive was its use in machine guns. The 7.62 NATO and the M60 were and are 2/3 of a .30 Browning, from personal experience. That is why we have the SAW for troops and the 50 BMG for a machine gun.
We went into WWII with the .30-06 and there was no way we were going to change horses mid-stream.
Once the war was over, we almost immediately went in search of a shorter cartridge.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
We went into WWII with the .30-06 and there was no way we were going to change horses mid-stream.
Once the war was over, we almost immediately went in search of a shorter cartridge.
Shorter, cheaper and easier on logistics, but 500 yards shorter ranged than the '06. The US as always used the medium machine gun to support the Infantry assault. Which means the cone of fire has to be over the heads of the ground pounders and falling in front of the them. The 173 grain 9* boattail was the best .30 caliber MG bullet made. The 7.62 NATO has such a rapid rate of fall on the front edge of the cone, the MG firer has to stop very soon to not have a friendly fire hit.
 

L Ross

Well-Known Member
For the kind of shooting I typically do with cast bullets the .308 works very well. 100 to 440 yards at knock down steel targets for fun and entertainment. Mild recoil and muzzle blast, off hand friendly, and commonly available rifles and brass.
I wanted to shoot a deer with my .308 Model 700 Varmint so I dropped 40.0 grains of 4895 or 4064, (can't recall which), under a W-W Power Point 150 that I have a bulk card board box full of from Midway years and years ago. Went out and killed a nice eater buck just as you would expect it to.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Shorter, cheaper and easier on logistics, but 500 yards shorter ranged than the '06. The US as always used the medium machine gun to support the Infantry assault. Which means the cone of fire has to be over the heads of the ground pounders and falling in front of the them. The 173 grain 9* boattail was the best .30 caliber MG bullet made. The 7.62 NATO has such a rapid rate of fall on the front edge of the cone, the MG firer has to stop very soon to not have a friendly fire hit.
Those tactics only work when the terrain and conditions allow for them, and you are using fixed MG emplacements. We (and everyone else in the world) found that the combatants were not engaging each other at extreme ranges. Sure, the emplaced machine gun was sometimes the exception but overall, that extreme reach wasn’t needed.

After WWII it was clear that everyone wanted a shorter cartridge.

After WWII the Soviets embraced the intermediate cartridge, inspired by the German 8mm Kurz (7.92 x 33mm).

The Brits wanted a 7mm (The 280 British) but the U.S.A, strong-armed them and the rest of NATO to accept the 7.62 x 51mm.

It eventually split into NATO and Warsaw Pact with NATO staying with a full power (albeit slightly shorter) 30 caliber and the Soviets going with a 30-caliber intermediate power cartridge.

Regardless of the military side of things, the commercial 308 Winchester cartridge thrived. In fact, Winchester saw the writing on the wall and introduced the 308 before the military adopted the 7.62 x 51mm. Perhaps that’s just a sign of the military’s reluctance to accept change or perhaps Winchester knew a winner when they saw it.
 

Rick H

Well-Known Member
I was a poor young left-handed guy looking for my first real "all around" deer/big game rifle. At that time there were very few left handed bolt action rifles available. There was the Savage 110 (never ever saw one in any gunshop, nor were any of the local shops willing to order one). There was the Weatherby (did I say I was poor). . There was the outfit at that time out of Ilion N.Y. Remington.

Remington had the Model 700 in '06, 270, and 300Winmag in left hand and the brand new 788 models in .308W and 6mm Rem. After pouring through the gun rags and rubbing pennies together to try to make them dimes, I walked into the shop and ordered a brand new 788 Remington in Cal. .308 Winchester. I paid full suggested retail price...$84.99 (the southpaw model cost $5 extra). That was in late1969 or early 1970. Probably one of the best decisions I ever made. That rifle is still with me (restocked and carried various scopes through the years).

Eventually, I bought the 6mm 788, a 700, and even two Savage lefty bolt action rifles. That little .308 had killed a lot of whitetail deer, a black bear, a couple of coyotes, and even a groundhog or two. It is still killing deer. It may have lost a bit of its gilt edged accuracy, but I think it is more likely that this 75 yr. old curmudgeon on the trigger is probably more the cause than the rifle. I am not a long range hunter. My .308 will do everything I ask of it inside 350 yds. I would never dream of selling that rifle. We go back 54-55 years together. Shared a lot of range time, woods time, lots of memories.

One could do a lot worse than choosing a .308 Winchester.
 
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richhodg66

Well-Known Member
It's kind of the .38 Special of rifle cartridges. Genrally does anything you want a rifle to do quite well. Considering how un-finicky it is about powder and bullets, availability of brass and varieties of factory ammo, downloads well for those of us who do that but can be loaded ti be the equal of most hunting situations, it's really pretty hard to beat the .308.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Those tactics only work when the terrain and conditions allow for them, and you are using fixed MG emplacements. We (and everyone else in the world) found that the combatants were not engaging each other at extreme ranges. Sure, the emplaced machine gun was sometimes the exception but overall, that extreme reach wasn’t needed.
There are a whole lot of soldiers from Afghanistan who would disagree with that. Read the book "The Outpost". It was much different than Iraq and house to house.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
WARNING – SARCASM AHEAD

It is difficult to praise the .308 Winchester without conjuring up the comparisons to the .30-06.

The .308 was a simple creation of man, while by contrast, the .30-06 was a gift from the gods upon Mount Olympus and delivered to us mere mortals. When one dares to point out that the .308 Winchester meets and often exceeds in the roles it was designed for, or that it is incredibly versatile, one risks accusations of engaging in blasphemy. ;)

Yes, the 308 Winchester case capacity is only a mere 83% that of the mighty .30-06. And per the Speer #12 manual the .308 Winchester can only drive a 165 grain bullet to 2812 fps while the .30-06 can drive the EXACT same bullet to an incredible 2803 fps…..(oh, wait,… that’s actually slightly less :oops:)

And no one can dispute the .30-06 was developed 46 years before the .308 Winchester, so it must be better? right...?


OK, enough sarcasm.

Regardless of one’s opinion about the wisdom to adopt a shorter military cartridge, that decision was in fact made in the early 1950’s. Personally, I think we did a pretty good job with that task. The .308 Winchester does give up a little bit of performance at extreme ranges, particularly when compared to the heavier bullets that the .30-06 can take advantage of. But, in the grand scheme of things, the .308 Winchester is a very capable and extremely versatile cartridge.
 

MW65

Wetside, Oregon
I love all the 30s... especially 30-06, 308, and 300 Savage... they all have their place, and for most of my plinking/hunting/match shooting are pretty much interchangeable.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
If I were fifty years younger, and could only have one rifle for game in my state bigger than varmints, it would be the 308 Winchester. A nice scoped bolt gun of 7 1/2 pounds and a 22 inch barrel. Nosler 180's for elk and bears, 150 cup and core for everything else. FWIW
 

JWinAZ

Active Member
No doubt that the .308 Winchester is an excellent all-around cartridge. Listed below are several similar cartridges in use decades before the .308 came about. Evidence that the concept was very worthwhile; the U.S. was late to it. Just by circumstance I don’t own a .308, so I’ll make due with .30-06 which will do everything a .308 would do for me.

Similar Cartridges:

7.65x53 Mauser - 1889
7.5x55 Swiss – 1911 (.308” Dia.)
.300 Savage – 1920
7.5x54 French MAS – 1924
.308 Winchester - 1952
7.62x51 NATO – 1957 (U.S. adoption of the M-14)