Woodpecker lips hard
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CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
Hahahaha. Yup!!
I had some babbit some time back that was 40 bhn+
I had some babbit some time back that was 40 bhn+
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Again- one of those posts noobies should read and think about. "Hard" means nothing. Bhn doesn't really tell you much. Smacking it with a hammer give more info than Bhn IMO.
I made up some stuff that was over 30 once. Shot like crap, even slow. But man, was I proud of what I'd made up! It was going to solve ALL my cast problems- not!
358156 hp
At large, whereabouts unknown.
I made a batch of super hard bullets once. It turned out that the lino I had bought was likely mono or foundry type in ingot form. Those puppies were hard, around 30 bhn. They shot well for me in 40 S&W and 45 ACP, but when I shot them I always felt something brush my hand as the pistols cycled. I couldn't figure out why. One day I found out. The bullets were fracturing at the taper crimp, and as the bullets fed, the nose of the bullet was separating, and being launched out the open (at that point) ejection port. What actually went down the barrel was a wadcutter of sorts, and the nose of each bullet was being discarded. I could not have planned that scenario. This said a lot for my 1911s feeding cycle, for all intents it was feeding empty cases. The loads were accurate, and recoil was quite moderate. I also got nice perfectly round holes in the targets.
I love this hobby,,so many variables.
Its fun for me to experiment. This 10mm 1911 has a recoil spring stronger than any ive ever used,pulls hard.but yet,,,i shot some loads yesterday that avg 760 fps,,and the cases ejected,gun ran fine,but wouldnt lock the slide back when empty.wouldnt have ever beleaved it would run this low.In this hobby,after all these years,ive found that nothing about it,is cast in stone.
Its fun for me to experiment. This 10mm 1911 has a recoil spring stronger than any ive ever used,pulls hard.but yet,,,i shot some loads yesterday that avg 760 fps,,and the cases ejected,gun ran fine,but wouldnt lock the slide back when empty.wouldnt have ever beleaved it would run this low.In this hobby,after all these years,ive found that nothing about it,is cast in stone.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
The FBI's issued 10mm load ran a 180 grain JHP at 1030 FPS, and those ran well in the several S&W 10mms approved for carry in the late-1980s-mid-1990s. Once the 40 S&W landed at the end of the 1980s, the pressure to adopt the 10mm more broadly let up considerably. The 40 S&W is roughly the equal of the 45 ACP in terms of Felon Repellent Potential, IME. 6 of one, a half-dozen of the other. That "FBI Lite" Federal 10mm load is kind of a whatzis loading in my view.
I think the 10mm is at its best when loaded to surpass the performance of the 40 S&W and 45 ACP, but that's me--if all you are doing is self-defense against armed hairballs, the 45 and the 40 are more than adequate to the task. If big bears live in your environment, the 10mm might be a better choice than a "people gun". At some point, you just need to pick up a rifle--and not some rat gun like a 223. I'm talking 30-06 or better. Sometimes we extend our handguns into venues they have no valid place.
Yes, I'm a heretic.
I think the 10mm is at its best when loaded to surpass the performance of the 40 S&W and 45 ACP, but that's me--if all you are doing is self-defense against armed hairballs, the 45 and the 40 are more than adequate to the task. If big bears live in your environment, the 10mm might be a better choice than a "people gun". At some point, you just need to pick up a rifle--and not some rat gun like a 223. I'm talking 30-06 or better. Sometimes we extend our handguns into venues they have no valid place.
Yes, I'm a heretic.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
You said a mouthful there brudda!!! Ever since the bottom feeders came into vogue and the Sainted 357 was tossed on the trash heap of LE history people have been trying to get 357 performance out of the semis. Ain't gonna happen. Sorry, but in this hick in the sticks retired Troopers opinion, these days if a 9, 40, 10 or 45 won't do the job and you can't carry a 357, then get a rifle, preferably something at least 30 cal.
RBHarter
West Central AR
Welcome to my little corner of why not ?
All of this kind of king of the side arm cartridge banter , not withstanding roughed feathers and trodden upon toes is one of many reasons that the Bubba'd up 1917 became a 45 S&W +P . The cylinder wouldn't clear 45 Colts with enough warm and fuzzy to make me feel good about it . So now split out 358 Win brass or whatever can be clipped at 1.10 or Colts or Schofield head space on the case mouth . So I take the hot hot 45 ACP 260 data and load it behind a 454424 at .453 and 250 gr and dump it in that 1.10 long case . The gun is built for 25,000 230s at 21kpsi and my load is probably 18-19kpsi at best ...... Crazy it's a 45 mag in a revovler it's an ancient cartridge and it own victim of the Mag was too much so we made it a special ........just like the 40/10 thing .
The beauty of a side arm in bear country is that your not likely to put it down on the other of the moose and have to out run Ben or Smokey's charge to get to it . Another place a double action grip safety might be a good thing to have . Like another thread quipted I don't think an 8# lawyer trigger will be noticed in the moment .
Even with 14+1 I don't think I want to be on the eating end of 4-900 # of rage directed at an appetizer between it and a fresh gut pile it the bullet doesn't get where it needs to go and disconnect the brain from the drive train it could be about 3 lifetimes before the pounce and slap stops even with heart and lungs jellied .
I'm a coward at heart . If I went hunting Griz on purpose it'd be with a 1000 yd 50 BMG full of those 750 gr Barnes X that way the bear has 1000 yd to burn up all that rage just in case it doesn't just drop in a heap .
My Dad always said a riot gun in 12ga with a 6 or 7.5 chambered followed by 2 00B and 2 slugs or Punkn' balls . He figured to shoot it in the face and when it rared up bust up the chest with buck and drive the slugs into the spine or clear through . Bird shot in the face cause it's pretty hard for something to chase you when it can't see or smell ......
It seemed valid then , it doesn't seem completely unreasonable now . 8 or so .690 RB should take most of the fight out of most anything not from Africa and in truth probably most of that too .
All of this kind of king of the side arm cartridge banter , not withstanding roughed feathers and trodden upon toes is one of many reasons that the Bubba'd up 1917 became a 45 S&W +P . The cylinder wouldn't clear 45 Colts with enough warm and fuzzy to make me feel good about it . So now split out 358 Win brass or whatever can be clipped at 1.10 or Colts or Schofield head space on the case mouth . So I take the hot hot 45 ACP 260 data and load it behind a 454424 at .453 and 250 gr and dump it in that 1.10 long case . The gun is built for 25,000 230s at 21kpsi and my load is probably 18-19kpsi at best ...... Crazy it's a 45 mag in a revovler it's an ancient cartridge and it own victim of the Mag was too much so we made it a special ........just like the 40/10 thing .
The beauty of a side arm in bear country is that your not likely to put it down on the other of the moose and have to out run Ben or Smokey's charge to get to it . Another place a double action grip safety might be a good thing to have . Like another thread quipted I don't think an 8# lawyer trigger will be noticed in the moment .
Even with 14+1 I don't think I want to be on the eating end of 4-900 # of rage directed at an appetizer between it and a fresh gut pile it the bullet doesn't get where it needs to go and disconnect the brain from the drive train it could be about 3 lifetimes before the pounce and slap stops even with heart and lungs jellied .
I'm a coward at heart . If I went hunting Griz on purpose it'd be with a 1000 yd 50 BMG full of those 750 gr Barnes X that way the bear has 1000 yd to burn up all that rage just in case it doesn't just drop in a heap .
My Dad always said a riot gun in 12ga with a 6 or 7.5 chambered followed by 2 00B and 2 slugs or Punkn' balls . He figured to shoot it in the face and when it rared up bust up the chest with buck and drive the slugs into the spine or clear through . Bird shot in the face cause it's pretty hard for something to chase you when it can't see or smell ......
It seemed valid then , it doesn't seem completely unreasonable now . 8 or so .690 RB should take most of the fight out of most anything not from Africa and in truth probably most of that too .
Ian
Notorious member
If you're PLANNING on a gunfight, bring all your friends with RIFLES and engage from maximum effective distance. Better yet, bring your pilot friends with armed aircraft for close air support and start the whole thing off with your other friends who have crew-served artillery. A sidearm always has been and will be the firearm of last resort.
First load of birdshot in a riot gun gives lots of good options. Fire a warning shot in the air without worrying about killing someone's kid, dog, or car half a mile away, in da face, or anywhere else it's a slug inside 15 feet.
First load of birdshot in a riot gun gives lots of good options. Fire a warning shot in the air without worrying about killing someone's kid, dog, or car half a mile away, in da face, or anywhere else it's a slug inside 15 feet.
Glaciers
Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Shotguns give unreliable performance do to shot choice and distance. Bird shot like Ian says inside 10 or 15 feet is a solid. Not a fan of shotguns for bear protection, two legged stuff yeah, but that’s usually up close and personal and far easier to put down then brown critters up close and personal.
I’ve been fortunate enough to never have to use a handgun on a Bear. I’ve known a fair amount of people that have used 357’s on up. Phil Shoemaker (not sure about the last name, but close) used a 9mm. One friend I have used to hunt his black bears with a 44 Smith 29. Used to take his limit of 3 every year. Last time he hunted with the 29 his first shot wasn’t quite right. He got the Bear stopped, but with number 6 right at his feet. Kinda shook him up.
So I my opinion a hot 10mm in experienced hands would work as a minimum. Shotguns are for bird hunting. As has been pointed out above, get a rifle. I will take a hot 45-70 over a slug gun any day. Handguns are comforting, but last resort.
I know this isn’t about Bear stopper’s, but it was drifting that way.
I’ve been fortunate enough to never have to use a handgun on a Bear. I’ve known a fair amount of people that have used 357’s on up. Phil Shoemaker (not sure about the last name, but close) used a 9mm. One friend I have used to hunt his black bears with a 44 Smith 29. Used to take his limit of 3 every year. Last time he hunted with the 29 his first shot wasn’t quite right. He got the Bear stopped, but with number 6 right at his feet. Kinda shook him up.
So I my opinion a hot 10mm in experienced hands would work as a minimum. Shotguns are for bird hunting. As has been pointed out above, get a rifle. I will take a hot 45-70 over a slug gun any day. Handguns are comforting, but last resort.
I know this isn’t about Bear stopper’s, but it was drifting that way.