RCBS Rebel Press - Initial Impressions

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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Rockydoc said:
My take on this is that the winner for my money is the RCBS Rockchucker Supreme.
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Rockydoc, I concur.

I believe that prior to the introduction of the Rebel, the RCBS Rock Chucker (in its various iterations) was the best combination of strength, cost, and durability for the average reloader. In fact, it is probably WAY more press than most people will ever need but it didn’t cost too much to get that extra strength.

There are a lot of vintage presses out there that match that excellent value, but they just aren’t as common. So, the RCBS RC sort of became the standard due to its greater availability; and that’s not a bad thing.

I don’t think most reloaders need to spend huge amounts of money to get a good press. A good steel or iron framed; “O” type press that is properly maintained will easily outlive its owner. How much you spend is up to you, but it is generally a one-time expenditure.
 
Rockydoc

Rockydoc

Well-Known Member
Petrol & Powder said:
Rockydoc, I concur.

I believe that prior to the introduction of the Rebel, the RCBS Rock Chucker (in its various iterations) was the best combination of strength, cost, and durability for the average reloader. In fact, it is probably WAY more press than most people will ever need but it didn’t cost too much to get that extra strength.

There are a lot of vintage presses out there that match that excellent value, but they just aren’t as common. So, the RCBS RC sort of became the standard due to its greater availability; and that’s not a bad thing.

I don’t think most reloaders need to spend huge amounts of money to get a good press. A good steel or iron framed; “O” type press that is properly maintained will easily outlive its owner. How much you spend is up to you, but it is generally a one-time expenditure.
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I based my opinion on the YouTube video by Gavin Toobe re: testing 14 single stage presses, comparing neck and bullet runout, consistency etc. To get better than the RC Supreme, you would have to spend a lot more money. There were a couple more RCBS presses in the test but not the Rebel. It had probably not been introduced yet.
 
Glaciers

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Petrol & Powder said:
I believe that prior to the introduction of the Rebel, the RCBS Rock Chucker (in its various iterations) was the best combination of strength, cost, and durability for the average reloader. In fact, it is probably WAY more press than most people will ever need but it didn’t cost too much to get that extra strength.
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I’ve got to agree with P&P that it’s “WAY more press than most people need”
The old first RC did about everything I needed. The 2 RCBS Jr presses did all I needed unless case forming. I would have kept the old RC press and added the Supreme in the short line on the bench, but, having bought the Redding Big Boss which might be a little undernourished compared to the Supreme, but not by much I’m thinking. The 30* off set was the seller for me. If I’d never had the opportunity to use the Redding I would have a Supreme and an old RC on my bench right now.
Absolutely nothing against the RCBS equipment at all. I have RCBS equipment in spades.
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I may ruffle some feathers…….but here goes:

I understand the importance of precision when talking about presses, but sometimes this gets a little overplayed.

It is important that lateral play of the ram is held to a minimum. It is important that the threaded hole that accepts the dies is centered over the ram and that the bore of the threaded hole is square to the ram. It is important that the travel of the ram is inline and concentric with the center line of the die.

However, this all gets a little crazy at times.

YES, the parts all need to be concentric and run true BUT…. some minor failures to hold those tolerances aren’t the fault of the press (dies and shell holders can be a source of errors). And, to some degree, the cartridge casings and bullets will “float” and self-center in dies and shell holders (at least in the beginning of the operation). Obviously, we don’t want to over rely on this trait, but we must acknowledge that it does exist.

Most decent presses, equipped with decent quality dies and shell holders, will make excellent ammunition. I’m not saying that sloppy presses can always be tolerated but I will say that even inexpensive presses usually manage to hold acceptable tolerances. It’s not super difficult to make a good press.

While some higher end presses will clearly hold tighter tolerances than their cheaper brethren, even some lower end equipment performs well. The real difference seems to be in the materials used.

I’ve had a lot of presses over the years. One of the better inexpensive ones I owned was a RCBS Reloader Special 5. There’s a long story to that press and it’s not important here, but, that mid-level press made outstanding ammunition.
 
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Mowgli Terry

Active Member
Around here: I've always wondered what is an average bullet caster or reloader really is. :). On a RC I have made Harvey bullets with the zinc washer and jacketed 224 bullets. I have formed a variety of cases. I had fiddled with two exotic custom RCBS dies making offbeat cases. I don;'t ever want to do that again. Recently, I formed 300 H&H brass from 375 H&H Winchester brass. Yes, it was pointless. Just wanted to see if the big brass could be sized down. The answer is yes.

This sounds nuts but the most effort recently exerted was to make 45-60 WCF from Starline 45-70. Most people don't do stuff like this. The RC worked each time w/o use of a cheater bar.

Now, in the aforementioned YouTube test of presses, the Supreme came in second. First was a German Turban Press that cost how much? I was thinking watching presentations involving the Turban that the German press operates on an opposite theory than the Co-Ax. It's a hoot to me some reloaders put a large :O" ring under the seating die on a single stage for that that floating die effect. The O ring is cheaper than a Co-Ax. For me, I'll stick with my old RC press. I think the dies have more to do with it than the press anyway.
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Mowgli Terry wrote:
Now, in the aforementioned YouTube test of presses, the Supreme came in second. First was a German Turban Press that cost how much?

The answer is 714.29 Euros or $834.51 in good Ol' U.S. of A. dollars !

It looks like a beautiful German press and I love ALL German mechicanical things but I could buy THREE RCBS Rebel presses for that much money and have a little left over!
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
here's the kicker.
if you load 300 or so rounds and measure the run out over the whole batch the question is why do most of them have around .002-3 run out,,,, but several are in some weird how did that happen zone of like .0015+, and then there's a handful of .005-6.

was it the cases?
the size die?
did you not hold your tongue just so when holding the bullet on the way into the case mouth?
or did you pull the press handle to the side a little?

then if you measure the big ones after firing, the cases are back to .001.
 
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Mowgli Terry

Active Member
I wonder if the cases may have much to do with this. How can I have concentric loaded rounds with non-concentric case necks? I have heard of ways of making several trips into the seating die with the case each time. I have one the Hornady Concentricity Tools. On this tool the bullet can be pushing into alignment. I suspect that there are several factors that can cause alignment problems. Another way is to play the shaman and "sage" to reloading area on a regular basis. For those screwed up necks my old Hart tool may be the answer.
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
but how did you only get some of them off center.

many cases have thick and thin spots from manufacturing, but that doesn't shift the center line.
 
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Mowgli Terry

Active Member
Non-snarky question: Why to we turn necks? Maybe, Hornady does have an answer in being able to actually move the bullet in the loaded round. I think the thick and thin of the neck is a matter of degree. Also, wonder how important is the head of the round in this game. It may be that we are dealing with a case variations and the concentricity is a line from bullet to head of the lumpy non-concentric case. I really don't know.
 
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fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
if you think about it a case that's thick in one spot and thin in another will only get more aggravated when the case is swollen up to fit the chamber.
kind of a banana effect.
pushing back down on it to make it fit a die only squishes more stuff around.
the die insures the case will go back in the chamber again, it doesn't care where the brass goes.
excess brass will of course force it's way towards the open spot which just happens to be at the top of the case.

turning case necks just scrapes away anything higher than you make the cutter.
set it for 12 and the thin stuff don't get cut, set it for 10 and some might get cut along with anything else.
turning a neck just cuts away 'thick' brass it does nothing to help the centerline.

people pony up for LaPua brass because it is consistent in weight, that consistency comes from a consistent thickness.
that leaves you only needing to turn those type of cases if your needing to correct a fitment or bullet release issue.

mostly your average rifle will benefit from more brass in the neck area, not less.
 
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Mowgli Terry

Active Member
We are dealing with many variables over which we have no control. Long ago we discovered there was a point of diminishing returns preparing brass for a ordinary rifle chamber. That was then this is now. Maybe it's better now. I'd say the really important condition is selection of components optimum for making accuracy in that rifle. I'm not sure about more brass in the neck. I just don't know.

I do have some 257 Roberts brass with turned necks. My take on it is that turning those necks was a waste of time. I had taken some "go to" loads out to to test a new rifle. What a horror story. Doing what I should up front found the throat to be too long for those cartridges. It was a no brainer that the gun was not made as a dual purpose rifle. I did seat out 87gr. Sierra's making some really looking stupid cartridges. Accuracy was excellent. There was ,maybe, an eight inch of bullet seated in the neck.

I'm using a Lee collet sizer on these 257 cases today. Neck sizing is the choice here today. Looks like those Lee dies are doing a good job. We'll see. To me, it's the dies not the press. The most accurate rifle here uses dies that are made for an arbor press.

That rifle was made for 100gr+ bullets. Loading proper length rounds found the rifle to be very good. To me, this incident proved yet again the need for correct components. You can trim, turn and use magic incantations but wrong is wrong. The rifle is a Number One B Ruger. There are still people who complain about those long throats. Long has to do with the bullet. I was not about varmint hunting with a 25 caliber rifle using 100gr or heavier bullets. YMMV

I ran into an article in an old shooting book about shape of brass as it's being resized. If confirmed my idea that partial full length sizing in a standard die is asking for trouble. Use the right tools. That brass is continually changing shape as it goes into the ordinary sizing die. There are dies made for partial sizing. On these topics it's a classic case. Have at with whatever cranks your tractor. YMMV
 
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CWLONGSHOT

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Thick necks cause or can cause bullet release issues as well. Similar to a too long case creeping into the throat.
Its a deal in some calibers. The lil 300 BO comes ta mind.
CW
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I must agree with Mowgli Terry about multiple variables and diminishing returns in these pursuits. There are a lot of variables and there comes a point when you start chasing your tail.

A press should have reasonably tight tolerances and be built reasonably true but there comes a point where there will be greater errors someplace other than the press. Dies, shell holders, casings, can all contribute potential problems.

It gets a little comical when I see someone using a dial indicator to measure ram deflection to the ten thousandths of an inch. Does this guy use a dial indicator to set the fan belt tension on his 1972 Ford F-150? Does he tighten the cap on a 2 Liter Pepsi bottle with a torque wrench?
 
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richhodg66

Well-Known Member
However good we like to think of ourselves, the limiting factor is almost always the shooter. A lot can be said that rather than chase the perfect load, find a good load, produce in bulk and practice shooting more. Time spent on the range will likely produce more good results than time spent at the press.

That said, I do enjoy handloading and trying different things an awful lot.
 
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Mowgli Terry

Active Member
As I tried to point out there are educational experiences on the range. What works comes faster after doing this stuff for a time. Having realistic expectations for the firearm will uncomplicate life considerably.

Where is that case neck when the bullet starts to move under the pressure of the powder charge. One of them gas laws has to say about that.
 
RBHarter

RBHarter

West Central AR
Oh sure now you tell me that squaring up necks isn't going to help anything in my low brow hunting grade rifles after I spring for a high rent trimmer ......
 
S

SWISS SHOOTER

Banned
Petrol & Powder said:
I need another single stage press like I need another hole in my head, ....so of course, I got another press. (this is an addictive hobby ;))

Addictions aside, I was curious about the new RCBS Rebel press and put myself on the wait list for one. It arrived today and I un-boxed it.
After looking it over, I mounted it on the bench. I then disassembled the linkage, inspected the parts, cleaned the pivot points, greased everything and re-assembled it.

I haven't used it yet but here are my initial impressions:
1. It is a stout press ! This is a substantial piece of equipment. I don't know if RCBS is contemplating the replacement of the current Rock Chucker (I hope not) but if this is the replacement, it looks like it is more than strong enough to fill that role.
2. This is not an entry level press. This is a strong, simple, O-frame, cast iron press with steel link arms and heavy construction.
3. There is no provision for on-press priming. There is a hollow ram with a port in the rear to allow spent primers to fall through.
4. The frame opening is not off-set. The opening of the "O" frame is set at 90 degrees to the front of the bench. The handle is offset and can be mounted on the left or the right of the toggle. The rear vertical section of the "O" frame is very thick and is over 2.5" deep, measured front to rear. The front vertical section of the "O" frame is roughly 3/4" thick.
5. There is a removeable threaded steel bushing for the dies.
6. The ram is roughly 1" in diameter (0.995" ) and the frame is equipped with a Zerk fitting to lubricate the bore the ram travels in. The bore that the ram travels in is roughly 3.25" long.
7. The opening in the frame is a little over 4.5" and the travel of the ram is approximately 4.25". The useable portion of those limits is probably slightly less but it is still fairly large.
8.The ram is attached to the toggle via a large steel pin. That pin is removable and is retained by a set screw in the bottom of the ram. Owners of a Dillon 550 will be familiar with that setup. The linkage attaches to the toggle via a large removable steel pin that is secured by a locknut on one side. The upper pivots for the linkage are large steel pins that thread into the frame. Those pins have Allen head sockets to allow for their removal. The link arms are steel and .375" thick. The entire linkage is heavily constructed and easily disassembled for cleaning and lubricating, if needed.
9. The handle is roughly 13.5 " long from the tip of the ball to the top of the toggle when installed. The shaft of the handle is roughly 3/4" in diameter (0.748" on my example). The handle has two parallel flats machined on the lower section of the shaft so that a 9/16" open end wrench can be used to tighten the handle. That's a very nice feature that I wish other manufacturers would incorporate in their handles.
10. I'm not sure what material the toggle is made of but I suspect it is cast steel and not cast iron. It is a substantial part and the stops that limit the upward travel of the ram are incorporated into the toggle. The ram does not appear to "cam over" at the top of the stoke and appears to stop at top dead center.

If you're looking for a strong, no frills, large single stage press - The Rebel may be a very good candidate.

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As long as Redding makes their turret press I can't imagine having a single state. If you must, buy a Hornady which has the quick change die change feature. RCBS has been taken over by the bean counters and the selection of dies and the quality reflects that.
 
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Mowgli Terry

Active Member
Addictive: You know, it;s too good a deal to pass up! One is too many and a thousand not enough. My addictive downfall is bringing home pre-owned reloading gear. I'm of a mind that the real reloading loony has all sorts of duplications. I am thinning the pile down on Ebay. At my age this stuff needs to be thinned out. It's grand but no Rebel Press here.
 
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