Not a rifle, Win 97

Snakeoil

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
Back in my younger years when I was just starting to shoot trap competitively, member of the club bought a 30 inch full '97 that was in pretty nice shape. This was in the 60's and of course, the gun was dirt cheap. He sent it out and had a Simmon rib put on it and then gave it to a local artist who did some of the most gorgeous stock work I've ever seen. When it was done, the wood was breathtaking and the rest of the gun looked really good. But it was still a '97 and other guys at the club would bust his chops about it. The common remark was it always looked like it was falling apart when you pumped it open to eject a round. I wonder what became of that gun. He died years ago. His son probably got it.

He was a great guy. Really short and skinny, but tough as nails. He was very Italian. He picked up a nicknake at the club, "The Skinny Guinea with the Ravioli Eyes.".

Gee I miss those days.
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
Joshua said:
The 1897 is normally the only pump shotgun that is allowed in CAS “Cowboy Action Shooting” competitions. That might also be the reason you were offered $400 for yours. I seem to remember reading that that rule created a little niche gunsmithing specialty, chopping off long barrels, and then slicking out the action on old duck and goose guns. I believe that the 1897’s exposed hammer was used as the rational for allowing it in competition. It is of course also allowed in the “Wild Bunch” competitions.
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I sold it in '89 or '90. The buyer didn't mention "collector value," so that may well be.
 
Bret4207

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Ian said:
All you need is a 1911 and M1919 an you'd REALLY be set to go.

Do, however, leave the Chauchat at home...
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Actually, there are some 1911's from that period here temporarily. My 1911 is actually a 1927, so it's a little young! I used to know where there was a 1919! Not at all legal, but those were different times.

All Marines know the "Shoo-shoo" story and to stay away from them!
 
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Bret4207

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
quicksylver said:
YUP!! IT WILL SLAM FIRE. LOVE them, the Germans tried to get them band. A real " trench gun will have a barrel marked CYL, a flaming bomb, and US stamped on the receiver, an upper hand guard that allows for the use of a bayonet, back in the late sixties we had them held by a clip mounted to the dash of our cruiseres. In the early seventies, I was fortunate to buy a 55 gal. drum of them from our county prison for the great sum of $35.00 each , little did I know that they would eventually go for $3,500 each. out side of the slam firing the other thing to watch out for is that to the untrained they can do a real numer to the top of your thumb when the slide is racked. enjoy ! .PS.They ere also known as " riot guns", "street/ alley sweppers'
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Haven't seen the markings under the grime, but the bayonet lug is there in all it's glory. Heavy old girl. That hammer takes a little getting used to!
 
Winelover

Winelover

North Central Arkansas
Model 12 will fire if the trigger is held back and action cycled. Has a flat corncob forearm.

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Bought this from a Jewelry store, when I was seventeen for $75, including the leather Leg of Mutton case.

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Added the recoil pad to increase length of pull and a William's LH safety. Original barrel has a Polychoke..............I still have it. Wouldn't shoot slugs worth a damn. Picked up a new unused modified barrel from Numrich Arms and had it cut to riot length. Used it to hunt deer in the shotgun only zone of lower Michigan. Twelve gauge chambered for 2 3/4"..............however I did mistakenly load a friends 3" field load............ it chambered and fired in the Polychoke barrel.
 
Snakeoil

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
Mod 12 is the best handling trapgun I've ever owned/shot. I still have mine. I'll die with it. Winchester not only built damn good guns, they were also damn good lookin'.
 
RBHarter

RBHarter

West Central AR
Mom has a 97' . No bugs , a little slop , dated it once , 1925 seems to stick ......

Got a bunch of M12s too .

Stevens built the 620 and it's sisters that were "Amish" machine guns also .

I have a 1908S Marlin that used the Square bolt Marlin Pattern but is a slide vs a lever . Aside from safety issues with the previous models , there's only mention of the S , I don't know why the 97' would be ok and not the 1908 that was introduced in 1898 .
My example passes all of the safety checks. If I remember correctly they would trip the sear when the action was released or if the trigger was pulled and released when the safety was pushed off . In either case you get an AD or an out of battery both being not good .

I seem to have a lot of curios .......
 
Bret4207

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
It's kinda funny but the only shotgun I've ever been able to hit anything moving with is a plain old Ithaca 37 16 ga with with a standard 28" (IIRC) non-ribbed modified barrel. There have been M12's, Moss 500's, a Marlin 1200, Win 12/1300, Rem 870s and 1100's, Savage/Stevens sxs's, even bolt action Mossbergs and H+R's. Anything running or flying has a real good chance of continuing to do so for years if I don't have the Ithaca. If I do, better than even chance it's going in the pot. Funny how some guns fit and others don't.
 
L Ross

L Ross

Well-Known Member
Bret4207 said:
It's kinda funny but the only shotgun I've ever been able to hit anything moving with is a plain old Ithaca 37 16 ga with with a standard 28" (IIRC) non-ribbed modified barrel. There have been M12's, Moss 500's, a Marlin 1200, Win 12/1300, Rem 870s and 1100's, Savage/Stevens sxs's, even bolt action Mossbergs and H+R's. Anything running or flying has a real good chance of continuing to do so for years if I don't have the Ithaca. If I do, better than even chance it's going in the pot. Funny how some guns fit and others don't.
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Boy, when it comes to shotguns, "fit is king", I've heard that before. Shotguns that fit me, Remingtons, SKB OU, and best of all a Beretta Golden Snipe OU that was my grouse-o-matic. Bad fit, Ruger Red Label, Savage/Fox SxS, Lefever SxS. I always wanted a SxS that fit me well, then along came steel shot and pretty much ruined all those dreams.

My Dad had an Ithaca FW Model 37 16 gauge. He came home from a duck hunt when I was a little kid, and over the next two days his shoulder and upper bicep turned Techni-Color with bruising. He traded it off for collectible ammo.
 
R

richhodg66

Well-Known Member
The Ithaca 37 is my favorite pump. I have owned several over the years and still have a few including a couple of 16 gauge ones, a Deer Slayer and one like Bret describes. Good guns, and for most hunting I'd prefer thm over all others.

That said, the gun I shoot trap with is a Model 12. Model 12s are built like tanks compared to the Ithacas. If carried a lot and only shot at game, the Ithaca is best, but when you know you're gonna shoot a lot, something heavier is in order.
 
L Ross

L Ross

Well-Known Member
Bret4207 said:
Really?!!!! I shoot the heaviest loads of #5's I've ever found and I think they are rather easy on the shoulder. I wonder if the gun just didn't fit him? That will do it sometimes.
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It most certainly did not fit him. He complained that on right to left crossing shots the butt would slip off his shoulder and onto his bicep. I the old shells that stayed long after that 16 was gone were Federal 1 1/8 oz. #4's with a roll crimp and aMallard Drake on the box. I loved that stuff as a kid. When I could sneak his duck call I'd blow it like a kazoo.
 
Rick H

Rick H

Well-Known Member
L Ross said:
When I could sneak his duck call I'd blow it like a kazoo.
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Reminds me of the hi-jinks and pranks from the old duck hunting camp. Stuffing down feather's in calls, tying boats with hidden lines to the boat dock. Babushka ducks (red Pringles carton sections slid over mainline decoy necks.) There is even a rumor someone loaded a bunch of shotgun shells with rice instead of lead (we were hunting in Canada and lead was legal for waterfowl).

We typically hunted in pairs and the teams just had to have fun at each other's expense. I can still hear the cursing in the predawn light over the marsh as one group or another found out they had been had.

Its funny how I remember the pranks and cursing and laughter more than the ducks......and we had some terrific shoots. Most of those guys are gone now. I hope the sun is peeking through the clouds, the wind is howling, and birds are decoying for them. Most of all I hope they have someone to share, scheme, and plan the next hunt and prank with.
 
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Rushcreek

Well-Known Member
The Ithaca 37 (early models) also had slam fire capability. Which is weird, because its predecessor (Remington m17 20 gauge) does not.
The last time I was able to collect Bob white quail to eat was at an abandoned farm house in Kansas ten years ago. My short m97 Winchester served perfectly.
 
Bret4207

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
richhodg66 said:
The Ithaca 37 is my favorite pump. I have owned several over the years and still have a few including a couple of 16 gauge ones, a Deer Slayer and one like Bret describes. Good guns, and for most hunting I'd prefer thm over all others.

That said, the gun I shoot trap with is a Model 12. Model 12s are built like tanks compared to the Ithacas. If carried a lot and only shot at game, the Ithaca is best, but when you know you're gonna shoot a lot, something heavier is in order.
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We had Ithaca 37's on the job. I think they were pre-WW2, many of them at least. They all went to the range every year, year after year, shooting slugs and buckshot. I don't recall any ever having a malfunction or breakage. Maybe they didn't shoot as many rounds as a trap gun, but the rounds were heavy and several hundred a year for 60-70 years is a lot! A heavier gun sure would have soaked up more recoil though.
 
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Walks

Well-Known Member
DAD had a couple, grew up on a 16ga. I have that 16ga and both his Model 12's. And His Grandfather's Wards Western Field 20ga. Bought a Model 97 and modified it for Cowboy Shooting. Cut bbl to 18 1/2" , fitted with choke tubes, reblued and refinished the stock. A Recoil pad to finish.
Model 97 & 1897 are Great guns. Even took a few Dove with the 16ga, just to say I did.
I was told by a Wichester Collector that all 6 digit serial numbered guns were 2 3/4" chambered. And all true Trench guns were too. As the U.S. only issued 2 3/4" shells. By 1918 the U.S. issued all brass cased shells for Trench guns.
Hang on to that M97, they are great shotguns.
 
Winelover

Winelover

North Central Arkansas
I looked into choke tube conversion for my Model 12.............was told the barrel didn't have enough meat.
 
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