Advice need on a Winchester 94 re-bore to 38-55

[Glaciers]

Well I want a 94 in 38-55. Prices for used rifles seem to be higher than I can afford. So I have a 94 made in 1954, a carbine with a Lyman steel receiver site, a 1903 32 SPL half round half octagon rifle, 1924 SRC, and a newer 16 inch trapper. All are nice rifles. So I've been on the hunt for a shooter that I could send to JES to turn into a 38-55. So I haven't looked at the 1954 carbine in a while, and today I noticed that there was an extra hole more that likely for a side mount scope. The back hole must be covered by the receiver site. Other that that it's a nice clean 94. So I have a candidate for a re-bore right in my safe with out realizing.
So, questions I'd like opinions - help with are: Bore size, .376, 377, 378 ???? I know some of the 38-55 went as large as .382. Also twist, 16", 18", 20", this will be cast only gun. Three, 4, 5, groove? And Starline has to different cases lengths for the 38-55, 2.080 and 2.125 overall length. Also I will be using PC but will use Ben's Red as well.
I just discovered the extra holes today and will be calling Jess tomorrow, but advice especially on groove diameter.

 

[Matt]

The only .38-55 I’ve dealt with is my Chief Crazy Horse M94. It’s groove diameter is .375 and I size my bullets to .376 using Ben’s Red and have gotten excellent accuracy with the Lyman 375449 and the Lee 250 gr FP. When I first got my Crazy Horse I searched far and wide for brass. I managed to buy some at a gun show from a guy who sold an old M94 and the guy who bought it didn’t want the brass or bullets. The bullets were .381 diameter and the Winchester cases had been neck turned to chamber in the rifle. This case and bullet combination would not chamber in my rifle. The bullets got recycled and I tried my 375449 that I had for my 375 H&H and it turned out to be a perfect fit and seated to the crimp groove fed without issue.

Now with Starline finding brass is no issue. As far as brass length I go with the short ones because I know it feeds through the action. Past that I’ve never really paid attention to the two case lengths offered by Starline. I’m sure someone here can explain the logic. As far as twist and number of grooves I’d go with what JES advises.

Hope this helps.

 

[Glaciers]

Thanks Matt, the 375449 is what I used to use in a 375 BB, pre angle eject. I was getting 3" groups with factory loads and loads with the Hornady 220 gr. Using the 375449 bullet groups shrank to 1 1/2" - 2" on my 75 yard range. There was a Williams receiver site on as well. I remember using a load of R7 up around 30 - 31 grains. I sold the rifle and mold, brass, the works, including loading notes to a friend was excited and incessant about getting the whole package.
I was thinking the groove dia was .375 or .376 on the BB, and having a rifle re-bored to .376 would be a good way to good, rather then the chance of end up with a.381 bore. Just more options.
Yes I'm looking forward to a call with Jess. I've considered a re-bore to a 35 30-30, and the 405 JES, but don't think spending money on another wildcat is what I'm interested in. The expensive dies and such, when I all ready have dies for the 38-55.
I like the handling of the 94 Winchester better then the Marlin, but the 35 Remington is such a great cartridge. So the 38-55 just makes since for my use as a carry rifle around here.
Just like the experience and opinions of this group, along with the chance to think out loud. Thanks

 

[Rex]

I have a '93 Marlin that my Granddad's brother bought new in around 1900. I've never measured the bore but from what I can read and a letter from Bill Bropy it probably is .380. I did kill my deer with it this last fall with some 50 year old Peters ammo.

 

[Ole_270]

My Jess rebored Marlin has a .3755-.376 groove dia. I got different measurements the two times I pushed lead sinkers through. It's a 3 groove that is very accurate with .377 sized cast bullets. I use the shorter 2.080 Starline brass and a plain based Accurate 38-250B mold with the RCBS Cowboy dies.
Mostly I've loaded 10 gr Universal for plinking loads, but it really likes the popular 21-4198 with a tuft of dacron load for a little more umph, on the order of 1400 fps. If I'm really wanting a heavy load I use 31-32 gr 3031 for over 1600 out of the 20" barrel.

 

[fiver]

Winchester went with 377 even for their 375's.
most molds reflect that in them not making more than @379 which is what I size to for both of my 375's.

if I had my choice I'd go with a 376 bore/groove whatever, 4 groove and enough twist to take the lightest bullet or the heaviest bullet I might encounter.
seein as how I have a mold that makes a bullet that weighs about 315grs. I'd say that was probably the upper limit and get the twist rate cut to that.

 

[oscarflytyer]

Have a Marlin 30-30 Texan I have to send to JES for a 38-55. IRRC, he suggested 3 groove (and everything I have seen says the 3 groove works great), and his bore size is .376. He also recommended dies, but I can't remember which ones.

 

[Uncle Grinch]

My son is going to get JES to reborn his Win 94 to 38-55. I have a Marlin Texan that JES rebored to 375 Win. I’ve got 375 Win dies. Can I use them for his 38-55?

 

[Glaciers]

Well I've called Jess twice now and left messages as to what I want done and received a return message yesterday afternoon with some info in it from Jess. Playing phone tag. In his message he said that .377 was as deep as he cuts, which is just right as far as I'm thinking. Have a few other questions for him and will try and make contact again today. I don't have cell service in my shop as my antenna and signal booster are down at the house. I've got some question about twist rate, the 375 Win is 12" and the 38-55 is from 16" to 20". The 20" twist looks like it would stabilize just fine, but 16" maybe better for slower loading's in the 1000 to 1200 fps range. One of the bullet designs I ran across on Accurate molds site was the 38-300D.

looks interesting. I like heaver bullets. This bullet could be run from 800 fps to 1600 fps according to the 4th Lyman Cast bullet Handbook. I like the idea of the 3 crimping grooves.

Arsenal has a copy of the Lyman 375449 which I like, at 280 grains in a 3 cavity for $73

 

[fiver]

the 449 is a gas check design, the 448 is the plain base same-same.
I use the 449 in my 375's and I can assure you the recoil in the model 94 can get downright obnoxious at the speeds the 449 can go.
plus the sights don't want to coincide with the trajectory until you get to about 200yds. if you push it that hard.

back it down into the just above 'black powder speeds' territory and you have a winning combination of power, recoil, and decent trajectory.
I say decent because if you plan on shooting very far then an adjustable peep sight is your friend.

 

[Glaciers]

Yes receiver sites for most of my rifles that don't carry a scope. This subject 94 for the project has a Lyman steel receiver site on it all ready, so it's good to go. I used the 449 in my 375 BB and it worked perfectly as far as I'm concerned and will go for that mold for sure. The Accurate mold looked like a fun bullet to play with, but, it's only a 20 grain gain in weight and would be a second choice. I used to run the 449 in my BB at full throttle all the time as it was used for moose and to discourage black bears..
As I've aged, I've become more interested in punching holes, ringing steel and rolling cans. Also shooting golf balls is a fun past time. But, I will be working up a load with a little zing to it. Like to have a little punch for vandal bears in a rifle I carry around.
I haven't seen a 448, but, I must say I did not think about it till your mentioning above. That would be preferred I'm thinking. Thanks

 

[fiver]

I wouldn't feel the least bit under gunned with the 449 going about 1500 fps. or so.
the 375's thrive on long better penetrating bullets than something like the 44 mag has to offer.

otherwise if you only look at the speed/weight numbers, the 375 is just a 44 mag in a longer stroked lever rifle.
start looking at what really happens in the field, and the BC type stuff, and it all starts to make the 375 look pretty darn good in reality.
making me want a 375 super mag lever rifle again.

 

[Brad]

I can assure you that in my 94BB in 375 Win the NOE plain base version of the 449 1500 FPS is plenty. Stout recoil is a mild term for it.

I have a nice 200 or so gr bullet from Accurate that I far prefer. That said I would have no problem perforating a bear with the 449 at 15-1700 FPS. It will penetrate quite well.

 

[CZ93X62]

My Win 94 is a Jesse Ocumpah rebore to 38/55, .376" grooves. I size either Lyman #375499, its RCBS clone, or the Lee 250 grain plain bevel-base to .377" and all shoot quite well. The Lee 250 at 1300-1350 FPS is a delight, and VERY accurate at 50 and 75 yards. With those 250 grain GC bullets, 1500 FPS in the 6# levergun is about all you will want. Steel buttplates are unforgiving.

 

[Glaciers]

Well Jess and I were playing phone tag for a few days, but got a call on Friday. So I'm looking at .377 groove, with a 1 in 20 twist. I'm looking into removing the barrel and sending it to him rather then the whole gun. Jess suggested if I could put a few 38-55 cartridges in the mag and just see if the lifter would bring the cartridge up then there should be no additional work in the conversion from 30-30 to 38-55.
if it does not feed properly then I'll just hand deliver it when next I go south.

 

[Rushcreek]

My JES 38-55 ( from a 94 30-30) feeds perfectly with no changes to the action. I use .377" sized bullets in the 3 groove barrel. I like it.

 

[Missionary]

Good morning
We have two from JES Reboring and a 375 Winchester from him. All three have a .376 groove and all three will shoot the same load off cross sticks as near the same as I can hold them. Boring repetition ! We use the same Ideal 375248 mold in all three. Fire them lubed or PC. Run through a .377+.
Two were Glenfields purchased back when they were a nice ignored Marlin by-product. The 375 was a post 94 someone forgot would rust.
I have not fired a JES Rebore (9 or 10) that was inaccurate. .375 and .412 . All sorts of calibers. Most are 3 groove... two are other.
My only regret is I did not buy stock in his venture.