Bent nose

[JWFilips]

This week I loaded about 25 cases before I realized that the newly cast and sized Lyman 311291 bullet had intermittent bent noses... Obviously from sizing oversize bullets base first in a lee size die ( was getting skirts nose first) right after casting
They chamber ok but what are the ill effects at shooting them?
It would be better then pulling them if I can shoot them

 

[Rick]

A larger punch close to the sizer diameter and a little lube on the bullet should solve the "skirt" problem. For such lube I use Hornady Unique case lube, just a little in your fingers while handling the bullets is all it takes and they slip through far easier.

 

[JWFilips]

Solved the problem last night by putting an oversize copper gas check on the ram and it filled the void very well....a bit too late for these however

 

[Ian]

I predict increased dispersion when shooting them, but no other adverse effects provided they don't scrape off too much metal when you chamber the cartridges. In fact, if you shot some that you KNOW are bent and compared to some that you know are NOT bent, and posted pictures of each group, it would greatly edify the membership.

 

[JWFilips]

In fact, if you shot some that you KNOW are bent and compared to some that you know are NOT bent, and posted pictures of each group, it would greatly edify the membership.

Ian,
I'm going out tomorrow morning. If I can cull all of them out I will try to shoot groups with each!
I will post later tomorrow
Jim

 

[JWFilips]

OK ,
On Ian's suggestion: Here are 2 targets shot this morning. The target on the left is 15 shots with the most distorted ( Bent noses) The Target on the right is 10 shots with , while not perfectly straight, the straightest of the bunch. These were shot at 50 yards with my Savage 340 30-30 Receiver sights. The load was 8.1 grains American Select
Also there is a photo of a bent nose round I chambered and ejected to show the damage from chambering ( gouge on Right Side nose of bullet) You can also see by the light play down the nose how bent it is to the left. They did require more pressure to chamber. This bullet will usually shoot 10 into about an inch if it is straight with that load>
Jim

 

[Ian]

Thank you, Jim, this ought to be a sticky.

See why the bore-riding part of a bullet cannot be relied upon for bullet alignment? Even if you make your ammo straight and true, once the primer is struck all bets are off which way the bullet will go unless you provide guidance and support...and often a little bit of wiggle room to find center (path of least resistance) rather than cram-fitting the bullet to bore and giving it room in the chamber neck, throat, into the grooves, etc. to go anywhere BUT straight as the path of least resistance.

As an aside, if you were able to shoot the crooked ones all lined up in the bore the same direction, they would group.

 

[JWFilips]

Ian,
I actually started out loading my 3 shot magazines with the bent nose up! Just to see how the would feel chambering Then I loaded some down ....Never thought about where they would fall on the target! Maybe if I kept them consistent I would have closed up the group somewhat!

 

[Rick]

That's called "indexing" when chambering all the same way.

 

[fiver]

it's probably a lot easier to make a mark in the mold and index off that, than it is to try and bend bullet noses all the same.

the issue is that bore riding [dumb term, they should be called bore engraving] boolits do rely on that nose.
they rely on it heavily.
I'd wager that 85% of make it or break it with one is because of the nose fitment and alignment.
I have had real good success with them because I will fiddle them to tears until I do get good firm even engagement on their nose.
I can get enough on some of them to see the rifling turn in the marks.

 

[Ian]

Bore-riders work best with as little bullet in the case neck as possible, one good intermediate band jammed in the throat, minimal lube groove count/width, and wide lands in the barrel. RCBS and Saeco Silhouette designs anyone???

 

[fiver]

yep I like the rcbs versions.

 

[quicksylver]

Best example (maybe) I have encountered with this was when shooting a Lyman 311332 out of my 03A3..
The mold was wildly out of alignment ..however if I indexed it so the seams were horizontal it would shoot
.5 " groups..if I indexed them vertically they would shoot 3/4" to 1"..why it has a two groove barrel and the bullet would fit one way better than the other....that bullet in a four grouve is a waist of time..indexed either way..

I do out of habit index the rounds using the bullet seams...vertical is my choice ...no evidence that it does better than horizontal ....
just part of my dance...

PS..I love trashing the 041 and 291 so I am going to take this opportunity..they are IMO a waist of lead and powder..too many better 30 cals out there..

On the subject of noses..Ben once said most of his 30 cals like a bullet with a nose of at least .302..because of recent testing I have been doing I have found that if it can be chambered one with a .304 nose is even better..that of course applies to bullets with a straight nose section..tapered is entirely different story..