Draw your own conclusions....

[freebullet]

I sometimes wonder how a rifle would shoot with a tapered throat,
one with no rifling for the first half inch or so just a tapered cylinder like the revolver uses.

Not well at all. I over throated a 223 bbl in the way you describe. It was a spray & pray affair afterward. I tried a zillion combos and came to the conclusion that I ruined it, not that it was much good before. I throated it even further just for fun and it only got worse until it wouldn't group even at 50yd.
I have 270 with a fire worn throat. It's loosing accuracy quickly. Maybe if you had a forcing cone just past the smooth throat? I dunno.

 

[KHornet]

It is good that there are folks like Ben who take the time to do what he does. I have neither the time or the inclination to do what Ben does, much less the patients to scratch that itch. That said, I very much appreciate people like Ben because they come up with some great information that I find both interesting and usefull. So a tip of the derby to Ben and folks like him!

 

[Ben]

K :

Those are some awfully kind words !

I hope I'm worthy of a portion of that.............

Ben

 

[fiver]

heck yeah I really enjoy your posts Ben.

I may come along and drift them off into a whole other direction but I really do enjoy seeing what your doing.

 

[Ben]

Thanks fiver,

Ben

 

[Pistolero]

I agree with fiver's comment, like the Barnes prior to the Triple Shocks, no place
for the displaced metal to go.

 

[Elkins45]

I agree with fiver's comment, like the Barnes prior to the Triple Shocks, no place
for the displaced metal to go.

But wouldn't that apply to any jacketed bullet? Or does the jacket/core configuration matter somehow as compared to monolithic bullets like Barnes, or cast? Or does elongation in the bore have less of a stressful effect if there's a jacket to hold it all concentric?

Interesting questions.

 

[Brad]

I think the grooves on the Barnes TSX are to reduce pressure, not give metal a place to go.

I may just see if I can find a cheap enough Lyman mould, a 429421 maybe, and bore the grooves out on one cavity. Being able to test a mould with or without grooves but otherwise the same would be interesting.

 

[fiver]

they do relieve pressure but if you think about how they do that.
the grooves do allow a couple of things to happen in the mono-metal bullets.
one is to have less bearing surface, which would lower engraving pressure.
the solid metal is also going to resist deformation, a cored bullet would accept the lands better.

 

[freebullet]

I read an article several years ago from Barnes on their banded bullets. It claimed the band's reduce pressure & play a role in a bullets expansion characteristics. Sounded legit but, their bullets are still WAY more$$$ than I'd be willing to spend.

Seems I recall an article claiming over pressure with book data before the barnes were banded. This was several years ago.

Yet another article discussed how Barnes had trouble getting consistent expansion with some of their designs in the beginning. The velocity is supposedly more critical for them to work.
The atf apparently confiscated some of their bullets too, under the claim they were ap and in a size used for handguns.

In my tests with cast I can run 356 smooth side at the same charge as Ole lube groove designs. Wish I woulda ran them over a chrono. Knowing the velocity difference would have been interesting.

 

[sundog]

In reference to my post #2 in this thread. I've been shooting the 356402, Lee 124 TL, and RD 135 GC on and off over the past couple of weeks.

All I can say is, "Boy, howdy," for that Ranch Dog bullet! I may have a new favorite for 9mm Luger, only shortcoming being the cost of the gas check. Powders used were AA#2 and Universal. Never used much Universal before, but I think I like it, too.

The 356402 left a little bit of streaking but cleaned right up with a follow up of a few of the GC bullets. The Lee 124 TL did fine. Neither 356402 nor the Lee 124 would classify as 'target bullets', but they do shoot okay.

 

[quicksylver]

Sort of on topic.
When commercially cast HG bullets became readily available I started to use them extensively for NRA Bulls Eye and the Run and Gun shoots.
I found that @ 50' they could compete with my cast stuff.
For Run and Gun they were just fine.
However what has always bothered me was that the commercial bullets were always bevel based.
It seems to me that while the bevel base allowed for easy reloading in progressive machines,
it compromised the bullets ability to minimize gas cutting.
That along with a harder alloy would by my logic reduce accuracy and performance.
I do have some commercial 45 ACP 200 grain SW's and lyman's 200 SW's cast up in WW +2%.
I also have com. 250 gr. and Lyman 250 gr 45 C "S I can try.
BTW the Lyman 250 gr and 7.5 grs Unique in the Ruger 45 Colt, w/7.5" barrel was a one holer off hand @ 50' when my eyes were young.
It's a little cold for any serious testing right now (figured shooting @ 25 yds would show any differences better).
Any thoughts or comments, better yet anyone beat me there doing this comparison?
Dan

 

[Ricochet]

I sometimes wonder how a rifle would shoot with a tapered throat,
one with no rifling for the first half inch or so just a tapered cylinder like the revolver uses.

I have a rifle like that. It's a Vanguard in .300 Weatherby Magnum. It shoots very well with a wide variety of loads, jacketed and cast. When people start throwing off on "freebored" rifle barrels, remind them how well a revolver can shoot. The key is that the "freebore" has to be a close fit to the bullet, as with cylinder throats.