GQ

[Rick]

A drop tube doesn't compress powder. What it does is lay out slower in the case so that it lays flatter & you can get just a bit more in than just dumping it. This of course with stick powder not ball powder. For a time I used IMR 4198 in the 454 and to get enough in the case a drop tube was mandatory.

 

[L Ross]

I have read we’re the Shiloh rifle barrels are pretty consistent with bore size. Should I slug my 1885 high wall I’m not to sure about Uberti barrels.

The cool part about shooting black is one nanosecond after you yank back on that trigger, the bullet is, fitting the barrel! Softer alloy and the suddeness of BP results in obturation that takes care of fit. Bullet design is important because what you put into the barrel is going to be different from what comes out of the barrel. It will be shorter and fatter, the design will help control whether or not the change in shape still allows acceptable accuracy.

When I finally heard what Ian and others here were saying about "dynamic fit" and "static fit" with smokeless ammo, and high velocity ammo with cast I realized I had been experiencing these phenomena with BP in my big bore, and why breech seating was so beneficial in my schuetzen rifles.

I really prefer to shoot my BP bullets, "as cast."

 

[L Ross]

Read through all the great info. What size wads to use?? And can you use a drop tube to compress powder ?? Thanks

I make drop tubes out of an aluminum arrow shaft, on the top I have an empty .348 case with the head cut off and a funnel fit in it. The shaft is mounted in a board to hold it stable yet I can slide it up a half inch to get the case under the arrow shaft, and the shaft is wrapped with tape so it doesn't slide down any farther. Pouring the powder slowly into the funnel and letting it swirl down the tube allows it to pack/settle into the case more efficiently filling the case.

A compression die is a flat faced stem in a die body used to give compression to the powder using your press. Typically I drop 70 grains of 1 1/2 fg slowly down the tube, then I place a .025" hard laminated paper card wad into the case mouth until my 50 round loading block is full. Then I run each case into the compression die, slowly, and holding the ram against the powder so the compression gets a moment to "complete."

Then I finger seat my bullet and give it just a kiss of a taper crimp to remove any flair in the case mouth and to prevent the bullet from falling out when handled. I don't mind if I can rotate the bullet in the case with my finger, but I don't want to be able to pull it forward.

 

[CZ93X62]

The cool part about shooting black is one nanosecond after you yank back on that trigger, the bullet is, fitting the barrel! Softer alloy and the suddeness of BP results in obturation that takes care of fit. Bullet design is important because what you put into the barrel is going to be different from what comes out of the barrel. It will be shorter and fatter, the design will help control whether or not the change in shape still allows acceptable accuracy.

When I finally heard what Ian and others here were saying about "dynamic fit" and "static fit" with smokeless ammo, and high velocity ammo with cast I realized I had been experiencing these phenomena with BP in my big bore, and why breech seating was so beneficial in my schuetzen rifles.

I really prefer to shoot my BP bullets, "as cast."

^^^ THIS! ^^^

Mind you, my hard-science background is definitely NOT extensive like that of many members here. But HERE GOES anyway. Black powder ignition is a low-order detonation that generally lacks the shattering effects of high explosives and their attendant high-order detonations. I liken its effect on a bullet base to that of a hammer blow or pool cue-to-billiard ball. Smokeless powders DO NOT detonate, per se--they build pressure very quickly (progressive combustion) but it is not an "explosion". I liken the physics of this progressive combustion to a shuffleboard fork.

BP propulsion can and will cause lead or lead/tin cast bullets to upset and fill throats and/or bores/grooves. I am not educated or experienced enough to say conclusively that smokeless powders cannot cause such effects, but I suspect that it is their nature to not prompt same as readily as BP combustion can. When you harden the bullets with antimony, I suspect you lose whatever ability for the alloy to "bump up" almost entirely.

.457" bullets for the 45/70 are almost always a waste of bullet metal. YES, BP can bump them up if the alloy is malleable enough, but if accuracy at distance is your goal you have introduced another variable in the ballistic equation that can and will increase potential error downrange. I share the camp of L Ross, who asserts that "as cast" as close to the critical dimensions present in throat and downbore is a better regimen than trusting to bump-up to take up the slack, Holy Black or Sinful Smokeless.