Griz kills hunting guide near Yellowstone

[Pistolero]

I have hiked and camped in and near Yellowstone since 1973. Did some elk hunting
south of there, too, about 8 or 10 years ago.

When I started in the 70s, there were basically few to no bears in the areas outside of Yellowstone
Park proper. No need to hang food, etc. By the 80s hanging food was necessary due to black
bears in the Wind River mtns Bridger Wilderness Area, 50 miles SE of Yellowstone/Teton area.
By the 90s there were reports of occasional grizzlies outside the park, in the Bridger Wilderness
area. By the 2000s, there reports of sheep killed in substantial numbers, and wolves were also
moving in.

I started carrying a .38 for two legged predators. Later switched to a .45 ACP with FMJ TC
ammo heavily loaded, with the idea that it would help with a black bear. Then switched to
.44 Mag. Current one is a S&W 329, very light to carry, lots of recoil, though.

Ya'll be careful out there. We are not at the top of the food chain.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/17/wyoming-hunting-guide-fatally-mauled-by-grizzly-bears.html

Bill

 

[fiver]

there was another one not too long ago that was running his dogs right before black bear season that got things turned around on him.
he luckily at the last second rethought and grabbed his hand gun from the truck on the second trip trying to load some of the dogs,,,, and left his young children behind.
he barely survived and was really close to shooting himself twice trying to get a good shot on the Bear that was chewing on his legs.

 

[Pistolero]

I've spent a lot of time in that environment, and the wife carries the large sized bear spray
and I carry the S&W 329. She has shot the 329 with full power loads, a daunting task, but
while admitting that it is no fun, can do it if the need arises.

Not shooting yourself is a key part of the process, no doubt!

Bill

 

[smokeywolf]

Adrenaline works wonders for taming recoil.

 

[Pistolero]

I would imagine so. We have also spent some time in Cabela's looking over the mounted
griz, thinking through aiming points in the base of the skull, neck area.

Bill

 

[fiver]

he was going for a close in reach around to the base of the skull shot.
one of them hit the meat and missed the bone, one missed totally at touch and pull distance and the third one finally killed the bear.
his wife and kids could hear the whole thing and see parts of the scuffle until they went down the slope bouncing through the rocks.

 

[Pistolero]

This is why we spent some time trying to grasp the basics of the physiology of
these bears. Looking at a taxidermied bear from different angles, and tracing
the bone and muscle structure in your mind from various angles, in a calm
reflective situation is WAY different than trying figure out where in the hell to
put a bullet while one is chewing on your leg or your spouse. Not trivial, still,
but you have some bit of a leg up on the difficulty by studying it in advance.

Hope I never actually have to use that knowledge.

Bill

 

[smokeywolf]

From my armchair it's easy to say what someone should do, how they should react, the measures they should take. I've been in life and death situations and returned fire while under fire.
What you're trained to do is put two out for effect as fast as possible, then aim the third. To fine tune that, 'two to center mass' and the third to "the off switch"; known as "the Mozambique Drill". With a bear, I'm thinking three to "center mass" and 'two to the off switch'.

Now try to remember that and aim a pistol while an animal that outweighs you by 700 pounds and sees you as an immediate threat to its life is doing its utmost best to chew you and claw you to pieces.

 

[Pistolero]

Agreed, not going to be as easy in actual 'heat of battle' as you might hope, but
doing what you can to at least mentally think it through in advance avoids the
situation where you are trying to figure out WHAT to do and then immediately
try to accomplish it. At least we have decided (at least approximately, all real
situations will vary) what to do, and will be mostly working on doing it.

The good news is that, in reality, even grizzly bears average a good bit smaller than the
largest of them. From talking to forest service rangers on Kodiak, and rangers in
McKinley Park, and seeing a number of inland bears in McKinley, the coastal and
island bears that have access to the rich and abundant salmon runs are the biggest
by far, with the inland Toklat bears in McKinley running more like 500 to 600 lbs
due to sparser diet. The coastal bears can be up to over 1200, but more typically
are 800 or 900 lbs.
Still huge but the Yellowstone griz are probably averaging more like the Toklat
griz.

But, even a black bear is far stronger than any human. A friend relates the story
of getting into a wrestling ring with a "scrawny looking" black bear at a carnival
many years ago. Bear was muzzled, the challenge was wrestle the bear for 1 minute and
win $100 or something like that for a $5 "investment". He was benchpressing close to
400 lbs, is 6'4" and was about 20. He said the bear walked over and put his front
paws on his shoulders and sat him down "like me sitting down a 2 year old" , then
pinned him, all in a couple of seconds. The bear then backed off, went to the trainer
for his food treat. His comment is "They are about 10 times stronger than they look."

And the griz look pretty damned strong.

Bill

 

[RBHarter]

Bears and cats twice their weight in PO'd restrained by a paper bag . I've seen a few Yosimite Cali Browns driving by them and if I can keep a mile or so between me and a little bear that's plenty close enough for me .

About a lifetime ago I had a couple of weiner cubs get after some deer hides in hindsight that was definitely a top 5 stupidest things I've ever done in my life . First I should have knocked X1 cold with the double jack head not hit that poor little cub in the butt with it and second I should have had some slugs for the 3"12 ga when/if Momma showed up not a 38 Special with standard 158 HPs ....... If it's stupid and works it's not stupid ? Very stupid that night ........

 

[blackthorn]

 

[blackthorn]

I pulled the above Bear shot placement from the internet a few years ago. I just posted it for your interest as if the Bear was chewing on you I doubt it would be much help but it does give a rough idea of critical placement areas.

 

[Pistolero]

Useful info, but as you see in the frontal aspects when he his on all fours......
not a lot of great shots. Into an open mouth would be great, but not likely to
happen. Brain shot is OK, if the angles are right, .44 Keith will likely penetrate
skull at relatively perpendicular angles, but at shallow angles, likely to be deflected.

I have said, and still believe that " About the second to last thing I ever want to do is fight a
grizzly with a handgun. But it IS well ahead of my Swiss Army knife, and my bare hands."

IMO, the key is a handgun in a holster. A long gun is more powerful, but is useless at
contact ranges, cannot be brought to bear, or operated unless a semiauto. Frequently,
the victim gets off one ineffective shot with a bolt gun as the range goes to zero, cannot
get another shot. A double action revolver works at zero range, and six times in a row.
This is a huge disadvantage for even a single action revolver, IMO.

 

[Bret4207]

From my ARMCHAIR it's easy for me to say what someone should do, how they should react, the measures they should take.

Words that should be printed on the screen of every computer connected to the internet owned or used by anyone about to comment on anything to do with any form of life or death/serious personal injury event as a reminder that you are, in fact, sitting safely away from that event with no skin in the game!

 

[Pistolero]

Good point, Bret. But it is worth thinking over what might be the best strategies to use
in serious situations in advance - when you have time to consider options, and get ideas
from others. No time to do much of that when the stuff hits the fan.

Bill

 

[Pistolero]

Here is an example of someone doing the deed....BARELY. Ouch.

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/09/...tm_content=2018-09-15&utm_campaign=Weekly+New

The 10mm Glock will hold 15 rounds. He had "10 or 12", and had to dump one in the middle of the
squabble.

And,AFAIK, there are no griz in NM, so this was "just" a black bear....although not black in color.

Yikes.

Bill