IDEAL 311413 Plain Base

[Ben]

Years ago, I took a single cav. IDEAL 311413 and removed the gas check shank rendering the mould to make a plain base bullet. This has worked wonderfully. I don't think I've ever fired this bullet out of a 30-30, 308 or 30-06 in the 1050 - 1250 fps speed zone that it was not superbly accurate.

I cast my grandson, Trevor more 413's this morning.

Ben

 

[Bill]

Ben, I have been shooting plain based bullets in our milsurp match every month, but I like that one better than mine

Bill

 

[Ben]

They can shoot some pretty amazing groups.

Ben

 

[CZ93X62]

I am not sure about the mechanics of "nose slumping", but a few folks in past years have bemoaned this bullet design's alleged propensity to slump when driven at higher velocities in its OEM/gas-checked form. Perhaps Ben's loads are gentle enough to not prompt that outcome; perhaps the complainants were full of condensed apple pie. If Ben says they work at modest speeds, that's good enough for me.

 

[Ben]

They work great.
You just do not hot rod a 311413 cast bullet
and expect any accuracy at all from the bullet.

 

[Bret4207]

Is that the "Squibb" design?

 

[Ben]

yes

 

[Bill]

The ones I use are the saeco made for breech seating in the 32-40, I just squeeze them down to .311 and use them in an 03a3, it weighs around 168 grains

Bill

 

[Ian]

I doubt the nose "slumps". I do not doubt that the a) entire "bore riding", reduced size nose portion does little to guide the abruptly full-sized body straight while entering the rifle throat and b) that one side or the other of the body section gets inevitably off center to the bore center due to lack of nose guidance and there being air at the scraper groove instead of supporting metal where it is needed most. The resulting lack of concentric mass/geometry affects spin balance and you get accurate velocity limitations.

This is fairly easy to deduce by comparing to other spire-point designs not having the above deficiencies which group well at extremely high velocity.

 

[RicinYakima]

It just repeated the history of the Miller-Squibb bullet design. They worked for several years to make the best 1250 f/s hundred yard bullet of the post-WW1 era. It just doesn't work at 1450 f/s plus.

 

[Ben]

All of the negative hype on the 413' really doesn't affect me and my current application of this particular plain base bullet.
I don't shoot it past about 1,300 fps.
This is one of the reasons that I chose to plain base the bullet , a few yrs. ago , and shift the center of gravity a bit more to the rear.
Clint Eastwood said it best....." A man has got to know his limitations ".
As long as the 413' is kept in the " slow lane " , all is well.

Ben

 

[KHornet]

A very good post Ben!

Paul

 

[Ben]

Thank you Paul,

Ben

 

[freebullet]

Plain base make for a cheap relaxing afternoon. Wonderful!

 

[Bret4207]

Ben, your PB, low velocity stuff has me thinking again. Years back we did a GB on a PB TL type 30 cal "plinker". IIRC, no one ever got stellar results with it. I always liked the idea, but it never seemed to click for anyone. Do you, or does anyone else, recall that mould or results with it? I doubt the posts from that era are even on the other site anymore.

 

[Ben]

I don't recall the mould, but people who don't have good results with a PB cast bullet are often times trying to shoot them at the same or nearly the same velocities they shoot their G/C bullets.

A certain recipe for disaster.

Ben

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

This mold has been one of the most accurate I have used. I picked up a 173g “30/30” fp that I also like but try as I might it simply isnt as accurate. Then I bought a ranch dog copy in 165 thats simply gorgeous and casts like a dream... its by far the least accurate mold I own... All in all I have troubles with 30 cal cast boolits.

I cast them hard soft powder coated. Use many different powders and loads never pushing past 17-1800 and most often 12-1400 is target.

CW

 

[Spindrift]

CW; sorry to hear you are having problems with your .30 cal moulds.
I have some .30 cal moulds that seem to work well in all rifles I have tried them in. NOE 311-179 (#315- clone), MP311-180, MP312-159 hunting, NOE 310-165 xcb- and the Lee c312-185.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Its odd really. My 35’s are great. My 45’s are great. Even my muzzle Loader like a Maxi and a Great Plains shoot very nice.

My bullet look great dont very in weight any different. I dont push velocity and keep
Pressures low. I have tried GC and PB.

Most of that is from my Black out Ruger bolt. A gun thats a honest sub MOA shooter with Jbullets.

I also had a Contender Carbine 30/30 i had troubles with. Untill I dropped in my 30/30/170/748 load and the thing could hit dimes...

Not huge I dont HAVE TO shoot cast in everything... Do I?

CW

 

[Ian]

CW; sorry to hear you are having problems with your .30 cal moulds.
I have some .30 cal moulds that seem to work well in all rifles I have tried them in. NOE 311-179 (#315- clone), MP311-180, MP312-159 hunting, NOE 310-165 xcb- and the Lee c312-185.

Yes. Take a good look at all of those, compared to an RCBS 310-165 or 310-180 for example, and the reason why they work well and in so many different rifles is obvious. I just don't understand why so many people are still enamored with the Barlow bullet and use only body and nose size for "two-diameter fit" as their modus operandi.