Lee 6 cavity 147gr TC 9mm OAL
- Thread starter Kenk
- Start date
It has been my experience that the correct OAL for your particular pistol may be quite different than other shooters pistols.
Keep seating the bullet until it drops freely into ( and out of ) the chamber. Be certain there is no flare left on the end of the case once the bullet is seated. Obviously , you also want to be certain it fits well into the magazine.
Ben
Keep seating the bullet until it drops freely into ( and out of ) the chamber. Be certain there is no flare left on the end of the case once the bullet is seated. Obviously , you also want to be certain it fits well into the magazine.
Ben
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CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Sometimes this is all we can do if a bullet or mould maker hasn't done the R&D to develop a recommended OAL for a metallic caliber.
Most 9mm pistols have very short throats and steep, abrupt leade angles. These vary considerably from make to make. Ben called it 110%.
The 9mm Luger is NOT a beginner caliber like the 38 Special or 30-06.
Most 9mm pistols have very short throats and steep, abrupt leade angles. These vary considerably from make to make. Ben called it 110%.
The 9mm Luger is NOT a beginner caliber like the 38 Special or 30-06.
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Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
When loading cast bullets for pistols chambered in 9mm Luger, I must load for a specific pistol. You may get lucky and find two pistols that will share a common loading, but don’t count on it.
Guns chambered for cartridges such as 38 Special or 45 ACP are FAR more tolerant and it’s easy to find a common loading that can be shared between guns; 9mm pistols, not so much.
One problem is groove diameters are all over the map in 9mm barrels. Another issue, as AL points out, is the variation in the beginning of the rifling in most 9mm chambers. Another problem is feed angles that are compatible with bullet profiles and OAL setups. And of course, magazine restrictions to OAL.
Glaciers also provides a worthy caution considering pressures and seating depth of that small, high-pressure cartridge. Deep seating a bullet in a 9mm Luger casing is asking for trouble.
Ben is 100% correct in his advice. My version of that process is:
My rule of thumb for reloading 9mm Luger cartridges is to strive for the longest OAL that will reliably feed from the magazine and function in the pistol.
Guns chambered for cartridges such as 38 Special or 45 ACP are FAR more tolerant and it’s easy to find a common loading that can be shared between guns; 9mm pistols, not so much.
One problem is groove diameters are all over the map in 9mm barrels. Another issue, as AL points out, is the variation in the beginning of the rifling in most 9mm chambers. Another problem is feed angles that are compatible with bullet profiles and OAL setups. And of course, magazine restrictions to OAL.
Glaciers also provides a worthy caution considering pressures and seating depth of that small, high-pressure cartridge. Deep seating a bullet in a 9mm Luger casing is asking for trouble.
Ben is 100% correct in his advice. My version of that process is:
- Slug the bore and determine the groove diameter (you may be surprised at what you find)
- If possible, size your bullet to .001” over groove diameter.
- Start by seating your bullet in a dummy case with the longest OAL that will both fit in the magazine and get the top lube groove inside the casing (assuming your bullet has lube grooves)
- With no flare on the case mouth, use Ben’s method and check that the dummy cartridge drops freely into the chamber. If the cartridge will not freely drop in and out of the chamber, start seating the bullet deeper in small increments until it does drop freely in/out.
- When you reach a seating depth that works, check the OAL and confirm that it is within the allowable minimum OAL – DO NOT DEEP SEAT A 9mm bullet.
- With those parameters set, make a few dummy cartridges, load the magazine and cycle them through the action from the magazine.
My rule of thumb for reloading 9mm Luger cartridges is to strive for the longest OAL that will reliably feed from the magazine and function in the pistol.
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Dusty Bannister
Well-Known Member
This is an old process that I read about many years ago. It enabled me to avoid many of the self inflicted errors that so many encounter when working with a new gun in one of the straight wall cartridges. It is probably common knowledge to many, but for a few it might be worth posting. If you have multiple arms in the same caliber, you may want to seat to the shortest measurement. If one of the firearms is a real outlier, select a different bullet nose form so you can keep those cartridges clearly apart from the others.
Cleaning rod/dowel method of finding cartridge OAL
This is what I use for my guns to determine the max OAL and this eliminates any question of the crimp, incorrect case prep, or other operator induced error.
This method works well on rifles and single shot pistols as well as Semi-autos. You can use a flat tipped cleaning rod, or flat tipped dowel rod. You will also need a sharp pointed pencil, a short dowel and a bullet sized but clean, of the type you are going to load.
For Rifles
Make sure the chamber is empty. Close the bolt, and be sure the firing pin is retracted into the bolt. Insert the dowel or cleaning rod and hold it against the face of the bolt. Mark the rod at the face of the muzzle. Remove rod, open bolt and remove it from the action. Insert the bullet into the breech and hold it snug into the rifling. While in that position insert the dowel or rod again, and with it firm against the nose of the bullet, mark the rod at the face of the muzzle.
The distance between the center of those two marks is the max cartridge OAL for that rifle, with that bullet sized to that diameter.
For Semi-autos
Remove the barrel from the slide and make sure it is clean and free of leading or other debris in the barrel and chamber. The dowel or cleaning rod needs to be longer than the barrel. Hold the barrel, muzzle up, and place the barrel hood on a flat surface like a table top. Insert the dowel or rod from the muzzle and mark the rod exactly flush with the muzzle. Remove the rod and insert the bullet you intend to use into the chamber and lightly press and hold it in place with the short dowel. Place the assy muzzle up on the flat surface. Insert the rod/dowel into the muzzle so it rests on the nose of the bullet and again mark the rod exactly flush with the muzzle. Remove and set the barrel aside. The distance on the center of the two lines is the cartridge OAL. Seat a dummy round to this length, or slightly shorter and begin to apply the taper crimp until the dummy passes the plunk test. This is the optimum cartridge OAL length for this bullet in this gun.
You may need to adjust the seater to shorten the OAL if this does not feed from the magazine, but generally this will be a great fit. Remember, if you seat and crimp in one step, you might force a slight ridge ahead of the case mouth and that will screw up your seating.
Dusty
Cleaning rod/dowel method of finding cartridge OAL
This is what I use for my guns to determine the max OAL and this eliminates any question of the crimp, incorrect case prep, or other operator induced error.
This method works well on rifles and single shot pistols as well as Semi-autos. You can use a flat tipped cleaning rod, or flat tipped dowel rod. You will also need a sharp pointed pencil, a short dowel and a bullet sized but clean, of the type you are going to load.
For Rifles
Make sure the chamber is empty. Close the bolt, and be sure the firing pin is retracted into the bolt. Insert the dowel or cleaning rod and hold it against the face of the bolt. Mark the rod at the face of the muzzle. Remove rod, open bolt and remove it from the action. Insert the bullet into the breech and hold it snug into the rifling. While in that position insert the dowel or rod again, and with it firm against the nose of the bullet, mark the rod at the face of the muzzle.
The distance between the center of those two marks is the max cartridge OAL for that rifle, with that bullet sized to that diameter.
For Semi-autos
Remove the barrel from the slide and make sure it is clean and free of leading or other debris in the barrel and chamber. The dowel or cleaning rod needs to be longer than the barrel. Hold the barrel, muzzle up, and place the barrel hood on a flat surface like a table top. Insert the dowel or rod from the muzzle and mark the rod exactly flush with the muzzle. Remove the rod and insert the bullet you intend to use into the chamber and lightly press and hold it in place with the short dowel. Place the assy muzzle up on the flat surface. Insert the rod/dowel into the muzzle so it rests on the nose of the bullet and again mark the rod exactly flush with the muzzle. Remove and set the barrel aside. The distance on the center of the two lines is the cartridge OAL. Seat a dummy round to this length, or slightly shorter and begin to apply the taper crimp until the dummy passes the plunk test. This is the optimum cartridge OAL length for this bullet in this gun.
You may need to adjust the seater to shorten the OAL if this does not feed from the magazine, but generally this will be a great fit. Remember, if you seat and crimp in one step, you might force a slight ridge ahead of the case mouth and that will screw up your seating.
Dusty
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
Never found 9mm to be any more difficult than any other pistol caliber cartridges. In the mid 70's, I purchased my first two handguns, days apart. Colt Python and a Browning HP. Learned to load both, simultaneously. At first it was jacketed bullets, eventually moving to strictly cast, a few years later.
Only difference between the two cartridges is the type of crimp used. Usually a roll crimp for straight walled, revolver & carbine, cartridges. Taper crimp for semi-autos. There are some exceptions. Everything else is pretty much straight forward.
Finding loading data for jacketed is easy. Most manufactures put out their own loading manuals. Cast data, not so easy because of the variations of designs................not to mention all the numerous mold makers.
COAL in the various manuals is just a starting point...........not set in stone. Especially, when it comes to loading cast. You must determine what COAL works for your particular firearm/firearms. Personally, I don't measure COAL. I go by O-give measurements, which are much shorter, and stay constant, once determined. Bullet design doesn't matter, with O-give measurements. However, I like to stick with TC or RNFP's and nothing over 138 grains. Only reason for heavy for caliber is for suppressed firearms. I own five 9mm semiauto pistols and one carbine..............all different manufactures. None have been throated. All of my ammo will operate in every single one. Not about to keep separate specific loads for half dozen firearms. I'm not target shooting with 9mm. I view it as a up close and personal defensive round.
It ain't rocket science to determine what length you need. A good starting point is measuring factory ammo (O-give) with similar bullet designs and weight then comparing that to the same designs in cast. Make up dummy rounds and record length (I mark each case with a Sharpie).........good time to do a plunk test. If the round passes, load magazines and manually cycle though action..............then check to see of the length changed.
Factory ammo works in all the tens of millions 9mm's in circulation. Impossible to tailor a load for a specific firearm.
Here's a O-give length comparison of some factory 9mm ammunition, I've had on hand:
Blazer 115 (FMJ) .888 - .894
Federal 115 (JHP) .878 - .928
Hornady Critical Duty 115 (JHP) .840 - .841
Hornady Critical Duty 135 (JHP) .859 - .863
Hornady XTP 147 (JHP) .891 - .891
Golden Sabre 124 (JHP) .959 - .963
Speer Gold Dot (JHP) .916 - .919
Win Silvertips 115 (JHP) .880 - .884
American Eagle (115) FMJ .895 - .896
American Eagle (147) FMJ TC .876 - .888
Even factory ammo, out of the same box, exhibits variations in length, yet operates in millions of firearms. Again, it ain't Rocket Science. Don't even get me started on brass. I've loaded most, without issues. I do separate by headstamps, but that's about it. However, I do prefer Blazer reloadable brass, when I can get it.
BTW, I started off casting with the RCBS 125 RN GC. Used that bullet exclusively, for many years. I used a O-give length of .865 which falls within the parameter's of the above factory loadings.
Only difference between the two cartridges is the type of crimp used. Usually a roll crimp for straight walled, revolver & carbine, cartridges. Taper crimp for semi-autos. There are some exceptions. Everything else is pretty much straight forward.
Finding loading data for jacketed is easy. Most manufactures put out their own loading manuals. Cast data, not so easy because of the variations of designs................not to mention all the numerous mold makers.
COAL in the various manuals is just a starting point...........not set in stone. Especially, when it comes to loading cast. You must determine what COAL works for your particular firearm/firearms. Personally, I don't measure COAL. I go by O-give measurements, which are much shorter, and stay constant, once determined. Bullet design doesn't matter, with O-give measurements. However, I like to stick with TC or RNFP's and nothing over 138 grains. Only reason for heavy for caliber is for suppressed firearms. I own five 9mm semiauto pistols and one carbine..............all different manufactures. None have been throated. All of my ammo will operate in every single one. Not about to keep separate specific loads for half dozen firearms. I'm not target shooting with 9mm. I view it as a up close and personal defensive round.
It ain't rocket science to determine what length you need. A good starting point is measuring factory ammo (O-give) with similar bullet designs and weight then comparing that to the same designs in cast. Make up dummy rounds and record length (I mark each case with a Sharpie).........good time to do a plunk test. If the round passes, load magazines and manually cycle though action..............then check to see of the length changed.
Factory ammo works in all the tens of millions 9mm's in circulation. Impossible to tailor a load for a specific firearm.
Here's a O-give length comparison of some factory 9mm ammunition, I've had on hand:
Blazer 115 (FMJ) .888 - .894
Federal 115 (JHP) .878 - .928
Hornady Critical Duty 115 (JHP) .840 - .841
Hornady Critical Duty 135 (JHP) .859 - .863
Hornady XTP 147 (JHP) .891 - .891
Golden Sabre 124 (JHP) .959 - .963
Speer Gold Dot (JHP) .916 - .919
Win Silvertips 115 (JHP) .880 - .884
American Eagle (115) FMJ .895 - .896
American Eagle (147) FMJ TC .876 - .888
Even factory ammo, out of the same box, exhibits variations in length, yet operates in millions of firearms. Again, it ain't Rocket Science. Don't even get me started on brass. I've loaded most, without issues. I do separate by headstamps, but that's about it. However, I do prefer Blazer reloadable brass, when I can get it.
BTW, I started off casting with the RCBS 125 RN GC. Used that bullet exclusively, for many years. I used a O-give length of .865 which falls within the parameter's of the above factory loadings.
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I don't care about COAL in pistol or rifle. For bottle neck, get HS right, then seat to just chamber without jamming (semis). For semi pistol, plunk test. Test every rnd. Shoot some and make sure feeding is OK. Both my 9s handle my ammo fine. I did make a checker (BO or 30/30) from a 30/30 Lee neck sizing die. Take out finger part and turn the other part around. Adjust so the rnd drops in and doesn't extend past the open end of the die. PC adds a variable thickness to the ogive and I was having problems with jammed bullets. Problem solved, no caliper or fancy tool needed. I also use a 332 size NOE insert to verify loaded neck thickness. I measure seating depth on a bullet and use GRT to verify load pressure. I keep a dummy rnd to set my seater die, verify a few with my tool or plunk test, then load em. I want my ammo to work!
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Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Jacketed bullets are very forgiving in 9mm Luger cartridges. Cast lead bullets are a different story. And while I can make a “one size fits all” 9mm load with cast bullets, the consequences are leading and poor performance in some pistols and OK performance in others.