Light Charge / Heavy bullet/ low report

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
I know it has been mentioned here; that a heavy bullet & light powder charge produces the least noise.
Some Rifle cartridges are well known for this.
But is there a formulae that can be used to select the bullet weight/ powder charge for the specific caliber to achieve this light report?
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I don't know of a formula but a fast burning powder reduces muzzle pressure and that can reduce muzzle blast. Keeping it subsonic sure helps with noise too.
This is an area where Trailboss can actually be beenficial. I can make my 32-20 Marlin very quiet with Trailboss. Velocity is around 800 fps with a 120 gr cast. I can hear the 'twang of the mainspring on firing.
 

Ian

Notorious member
My experience is that a minimal amount of the fastest practical powder and a LIGHT bullet is quietest.

It takes more energy to get more mass moving, and even if the powder all burns up in the first inch behind a heavy bullet it takes more of it, thus more pressure, more heat, and ultimately more noise.

Most of the time when engineering a load to be quiet there are one or two other critical considerations to go along with it, principally those will be lethality and/or functioning of a semi-auto. When reducing the velocity below the speed of sound, shock damage is also reduced drastically, as is ability of the bullet to penetrate a target straight through without deflecting off of hide or bone and the reliability of expandable bullet noses, so we compensate the only way we can by adding mass to ensure that at the least we get two bleeding holes. Many cartridges will not cycle their intended host weapon with subsonic ammunition unless bullet weight is increased significantly to put reactive energy into the action and/or allow enough mass resistance to build sufficient gas pressure to work a gas action.

The 300 AAC Blackout in a AR-15 is a perfect example of a system which will work with both subsonic and supersonic loads with no changes to the gun, but it only works within a narrow load window and range of bullet weights. Below 200 grains, most AR-15s won't cycle with a load that is still subsonic. Even at 220 grains or more, there is a narrow window of powders that will make the action cycle reliably yet not make so much pressure as to push the bullet over the speed of sound. Recoil-operated .22 LR isn't reliable with standard-velocity (target subsonic) 36 grain bullets, so we have a specialty market for 42-grain and even 60-grain bullets which will cycle un-modified semi-autos without breaking the sound barrier. It all goes back to Newton's Third Law of Motion, and if velocity must be reduced, mass must be increased to equal the given force necessary to work an automatic.

If a quiet load is the principal need, functioning an action isn't required by the load, and you're not shooting to kill something, use the lightest bullet and smallest amount of the fastest-burning powder that is practical to get the bullet reliably and accurately out of the barrel. YMMV.
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Thanks, Ian,
I see that I have been experimenting on the wrong side of the "scale"
I'm just playing with single shot loads.......not after a specific goal since I only shoot paper.
I'm just doing it to learn & gain knowledge.
Trying to put what I learn here into practice
Jim
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I think some people used these loads for pest control. The reason for a heavy bullet was to give good penetration at the very low velocity.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
light weight is subjective.
a 165gr bullet in a 45 colt is wider than it is long,,, but that same weight is getting heavy for a 35 cal revolver.
in the 35 cal 85grs would be light.

I use 165's in the 45's pretty often.
in the lever guns, even with a near max load of clay's, the muzzle noise is a pop.
however I have to really wind up the unique in the 1911 to get anything near 100% functioning [so I don't use them there]
in the revolver all bets are off, I can get them down to 'watching them fly to the target' velocity's with some embarrassingly low powder amounts. [especially if I use a tumble lube fortified with graphite]
which I guess backs up what Ian is saying.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Look at this video, Jim, if you haven't already. The load is the Lee 230-grain (about 223 grains as cast from WW) Lee .30-caliber bullet with the quietest yet most deadly load I could develop with it, 6.4 grains of Titegroup and a WLP primer (WLP groups better than any of the rifle primers I tried, thanks to Ben for the tip). These loads run about 130 fps below the speed of sound here, any faster and the bullet flight noise starts to increase dramatically. Even with the suppressor they are not "mouse phardt" quiet, but still pretty dang quiet and I have killed wild pigs with the load at over 100 yards before. BUT, what I should have done is shot some of the loads using the Lee 120-grain plain base round nose where I just sort of wave the primed cases in the direction of the Titegroup jug and seat the bullet. The light bullet with almost no powder behind it just barely gets out of the barrel at about 600 fps and all you hear is the lock of the rifle. OK for hunting rabbits and rats, but not much else other than golf balls, small rocks, clay pigeons, or paper targets at the range. You can see the bullet arc in to the target quite plainly, especially if powder-coated a bright color.

 

popper

Well-Known Member
I've been playing with100gr H.J hornadys, got a couple boxes of them, in 300 BO using cfe pistol. At 5 gr, just a pop, like a cork popgun. 5.5gr is more like a gun. Accuracy isn't bad,~4" low at 50 so probably not subsonic, compared to ~1600 fps. So you can get quiet from light stuff too.
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Ian,
great video Thanks for posting. I have switch to WLP & WSP primers for all my light loading. It is one thing that can really tell the difference it makes in accuracy.
Love to hear what those 120 grain bullets would sound like
 

Ian

Notorious member
It's a terrible video but thanks anyway:oops: Camera and card was right at a hundred bucks and does NOT make phone calls or send emails, thank you very much. The microphone and auto-focus actually exceeded my expectations but the lens is pure garbage, which kinda was expected. At least it sorta captures what cannot be related in print.
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Ian,
Things like that give us a personal experience of what was happening. The sound track alone was worth it!
Any knowledge shared here I think is a big plus for the members!
Jim
 

waco

Springfield, Oregon
Kingear D009.
Thanks. My brother and I are looking into getting two new cameras for long range shooting. One on us and one out at the target.
We were thinking Gopro possibly?......
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
Walter Brad uses a go-pro.

Winchester primers.
the wolfs are pretty good primers too but their availability and lot to lot makeup is always a bit too spotty for me.
the last time I bought LP an LR primers I got 10 sleeves of each off the same pallet so I have one single continuous lot number to last me.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Yes, Winchester Large Pistol. Be sure if you try them that your primer seating punch is capable of seating them fully in a rifle case, and also make sure that your rifle's firing pin protrudes sufficiently to give consistent and full strikes. After quizzing JWFilips and Ben and a few others on this I tried a bunch of different primers and chose WLP because I have a bunch from when they were all I could get during the last shortage, and they're a little hotter than typical LP primers but not nearly as hot as even the notoriously mild and consistent Federal LR primers. Milder primers put less initial pressure into the case and keep the bullet from uncorking before the powder gets lit when using very light loads in a rifle case. This makes a safer load and a more accurate one most of the time.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
when I tried the LP in the 30-06 I ended up bumping the 2400 up about a full grain to get back the accuracy node I previously had [plus about 10% more]
not a bad deal since I got more load density and a gentler slightly longer push on the bullet.