Soft Lead + SWC-HP + Powder Coat + Low Vel/Pres = Success ?

[OS OK]

I have cast lots of different style boolits but have never, until this past couple of week tried to cast a hollow point and make it work downrange.
For the first attempt, I wanted to try to get a low velocity, low pressure cast that would work in a .45 ACP. I'd like to have a round for self defense that wouldn't go through a perp and then through a couple of sheetrock walls and harm anyone else, just the 'bad guy'. I have loaded the J-types and have had poor success even when speeding them up to near max which can be hard on a semi-auto, jacketed low vel/pres. HP's just don't compare to the power of a magnum hollow points expansion.
As a caster, I should be capable of making a cast that will mushroom under whatever speed or pressure the weapon is capable of shooting.
I lucked into an old single cavity Lyman 452 423 SWC-HP and found that regular diluted COWW's were too hard, even when mixed down 50%.


But...after changing the Pb to a softer than usually used for the pressure involved and...thinking of the PC coating as a 'more than just a substitute for lubrication' and realizing it is a 'jacket of sorts'...I got this...measuring OD @ .816"...and keeping full weight.


For these...I used straight SOWW's (stick on wheel weights) with nothing else added, not even Sn.
The BHN after casting and Powder Coating was 7.4 . The mold is a 230 grain design but with this lead they came out @ 238 & 239 grains. I sized them @ .451" . Not oversized...thinking jacketed by the PC.
I powder coated them with Black gloss by tumbling coating in a tub.
The powder was 700-X @ 4.8 grains and the avg. velocity was 863 FPS ... pretty slow huh?
I filled a 4" PVC pipe with water and shot this one down the 10' length and the pressure caused the duct taped end to blow off but it didn't let the cast get damaged.


The red marks a lot on the boolit makes it easier to measure the indent when using the Lee BHN measuring scope.
Next I'll try a .38/357 SWC-HP mold, Lyman 358 439 and try to get a regular .38 Special @ typical velocity and pressure to do the same thing.


We'll see...

Thanks for taking the time to read my first post here...I'm passionate about this hobby and spend lot's of time at it...whenever the 'honey-doos' permit that is.

If you would like to add on here with your efforts and results...have at it and welcome.

charlie

 

[Rick]

Looks like you achieved your goal. Much the same method I used, SWW +2% Sn @ 8 BHN. 45 ACP @ 800 fps.



The above were tested in a full plastic 55 gallon drum by standing on a roof and shooting straight down into the water. Lyman Devastator @ 200 gr. I doubt there was much penetration of the water, more likely the expanded at or near the surface and then just sank.



This is SAECO 068, 200 gr. SWW +2% Sn fired into the same drum. This bullet penetrated the full column of water in the first 55 gallon drum and blew a hole in the bottom. For the next drum I placed steel plates on the bottom, they still penetrated the full water column. Third bullet to the right hit on an angle, the rest hit pretty much straight on. Was amazing to me they penetrated that much water with that much energy left.
.

 

[OS OK]

Thanks for posting in this thread Rick...those beautiful mushrooms just give me the goose bumps!
Looks like the HP flattens quick and delivers all the kinetic energy to the water in short order but the SWC was having nothing do with expansion, it was going for penetration period.

When I shot down that 10 foot pipe full of water I was sure it would stop about 2/3'rds way down and I'd dump the water to get it back...not so at all, it went all the way through, knocked the duct tape off the end then bounced off the oak round it was wedged against and back 12 feet under my pickup. Almost never found it.

I like how the soft lead pulls back and spreads out without loosing parts and pieces around the edge, if anything it'll split but still hang onto it's weight.
That devastator is wicked looking, can only imagine what they look like in a revolver pointed in your face.

 

[Rick]

My goal in doing these tests was to determine how well the alloy would hold together, keep in mind that water is a very hard medium & has little to no similarities to flesh. I was looking for the same load you are, to be able to shoot a 2 legged snake in my house and not my neighbor with the same shot. These tests did end my quest for a defensive load using 068.

 

[Ian]

GOOD STUFF.

Love that powder coat, just started doing it myself after ignoring it for years. I'm close to calling the Quest for Extreme Bullet Lube complete, just have to do more work with my rifles at top speed and we'll see.

I like the Devastator .45 bullet a lot myself. I use scrap lead, a dash of clippy WW, and a little tin to help the malleability.

PC isn't quite a jacket, but almost. I run my .45 ACPs at .451" also and tend to have better results in the tight-throated modern automatics that way, and also in my convertible which has very sharp edges transitioning between chamber and cylinder throats.

 

[Pistolero]

8 BHN HP 358429 works out to 155 gr in my mold. This will reliably expand in wet newsprint/phone books
which has always given me mushroomed bullets which look identical to the ballistic gelatin tested bullets
of the same type and velocity. Penetration is right at half of what the ballistic gelatin tests get.

So, figure the expanded bullet is about 3/4" long, so penetration to the front is about 5", and
double that, so you get 10". Doesn't meet FBI specs for 12" penetration, but meets my specs
for a good self defense load. Also accurate and shoots to the sights at 15 yds with a S&W 329



This one is a bit overexpanded, IMO. But penetration is about 5.75x2 = 11.5" in ballistic
gelatin, so close to FBI standard, and probably pretty darned effective.

 

[Kevin Stenberg]

Well I hope someone else uses OS OK's method for the 44 M. like I am playing with. I am using plumbers ingots with no sn included.
The first thing I noticed was that I had to increase my pot temperature by probably 30 deg. to get rid of wrinkled bullets.
The 3 molds I am working with are all Mihec molds 432423 approximately 220gr , the 503 at approximately 256gr, and the 3 crimp grove 310gr bullet. I haven't loaded or shot any yet. But after deer season (this Saturday) I will start loading some.

 

[OS OK]

The .38/.357 Ideal mold 358439 (with two different depth pins) the little brother to the .45 SWC-HP's above, this picture is of the shorter pin, is the result of todays latest test with 5 BHN lead flashing with no added Sn. They cast beautifully with pot at 750 *F. and mold preheated to 400*F. on the hot plate.
I loaded them with 4.0 grains of Bullseye out of a 4.2 max. permissible for standard velocity. Have not clocked todays rounds but several weeks past they were running IIRC'ly...about 743 FPS.
These rounds had a caulking called 'Big Stretch' shoved into the HP's to make an 'initiator tip' that would keep cloth and foreign matter out of the tip.
I wanted these to penetrate minimum and absolutely not, if possible go through a perp and into another room of the house...what I call a reasonable self defense round for urban environments. They are for my wife's .38 snubbie 'in house' revolver.
I'm going to try small pistol magnum primers next test to see if I can get 100% compliance, I'm pretty close now...one round lost .1'th and another lost .3 grains weight, not too bad there.
These rounds are PC'd too...love that stuff! With the short pins and straight lead they weighed 165 grains (+/- 2 grains throughout the cast batch of 80 casts.).

 

[Pistolero]

I would test this on some sheetrock wall simulations, a piece of 2x4 with sheetrock on each side, and put a pair of them
there, see if they go thru both. Try about 6-8" of wet newspaper first, then the wall, although, not all shots are guaranteed
to hit meat, so checking on wall penetrations would seem important to reach your goal.

Bill

 

[Lagamor]

Very interesting thread.
Don't want to wander down a rabbit hole, but I'm having trouble with Mihec mold cast 9mm hollow points, powder coated and sized to .356".
The slide won't fully go into battery, and I have to use a table to get the slide go back.
Not sure it would fully solve the problem, but thinking sizing to .355" might help.
Has anyone had similar experience?

 

[Pistolero]

Hmm. Most 9mm guns require .357 or .358 with non-PCed cast. RN cast are generally problematic with many
9mms, very short "throat" in front of chamber. IMO, the TC, like Lee 356-120-TC which will typically cast at .3585 is
the best choice for 9mms. I have not PCed any, so this is not considering effects which PCing may change, but IME,
smaller is never better.

Bill

 

[Lagamor]

If my COAL is 1.050" the gun will go into battery just fine.
But when I set them longer, I believe the cartridges have three points of contact when they get stuck. Sometime when I pull them out the bullet pulls free from the case. Generally, the COAL is longer after I pull them out.
I don't want to ream the throat. I think I'm just going to have live with seating them short.

 

[OS OK]

Without seeing a picture or profile of that 9MM cast I could only guess that either the ogive is catching at the step cut in chamber that is meant to headspace the brass or that cast has a slight shoulder that is set too far out when you taper crimp.
When you PC a cast round you can add around .0015" to the overall diameter even more in some methods of PC'ing. Then if you don't stand them on base in the oven you instead let them bake in a sideways configuration then the PC will flow and collect thicker on one side than the other. It ain't much but it makes a difference if you don't size after PC'ing.
I always size from fresh cast then Pc then size again after PC, especially in the autos. It's extra work and time but in the end of the making, I have little jacketed rounds that load consistently...that's what we are after right? Consistency?

 

[Lagamor]

Your probably right about catching them catching on the step cut.
I also don't stand up my rounds when baking. Think I'm going to change how I PC processes. That might help a lot. Thanks guys.