Starting my first cast balls . . .

[glassparman]

Ok i have an ASM black powder 44 cal made in italy. This darn thing has a 12" barrel!

Got it for $100 so I gotta shoot it. I found some caps, bought a BP measure, purchased a Lee 90442 mold and some of those Ox Yoke wonder seals.

So before I go out to blow my face off, what is the best mix for these balls? Pure lead, wheel weights? Salvaged range lead?

Any other advice is welcomed as well.

Mike

 

[Brad]

Pure lead

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

You can try other alloys but pure, but be sure ta try pure to & you will see why pure only is the way to go.

CW

 

[Missionary]

Yes Pure lead...
One because you need to load it with the rammer. Hard lead requires to much pressure and those teeth on the rammer will break.
I would start with 20 grains (BP) by volume and shoot a cylinder at 15 yards. Then add 5 grains. Then another 5. One of those loads should look pretty good on paper. Generally a max load does not give best accuracy. But your revolver may like more.
My first was (still have it ) an 1860 Colt Navy Arms. It shoots a RB.002 over cylinder mouth diameter best. 27 grains 3F Goex, cereal box wad,then ball with a sear of 55-45 beeswax / olive oil over the ball. Soda cans at 25 yards, or ground hogs are dead with that revolver and load.

 

[Tomme boy]

You bought 45 cal balls right? Or the mold? You want to shave lead when You seat the balls. And they take #10 not #11 if you did not know. I tried #10 on my 1858 Remington and had a chain fire. Only time it ever happened. One down the barrel and one off each side of the gun.

 

[fiver]

Tomme beat me to it.
the 44's take 454 balls.

i settled in at 23grs for the '38's' [375] with bees wax, crisco, and lanolin lube.

 

[Winelover]

ROA (44 caliber) takes .457 RB's.

I use and like the Ox Yoke Wonder Seals.

Smaller percussion cap (Remington) fits better on my ROA, also.

I use Pyrodex "P" in all my front stuffers. Just reduce the load by 10% volume.

Arkansas requires the use of conicals for hunting handguns, so RB's are just for plinking.

 

[Maven]

At some point you'll want to change the nipples, especially if you experience problems with how the caps fit on them and/or hang fires or needing to 2 hits to fire the cap. I strongly recommend Slix Shot replacements from Bad Man products.

 

[L Ross]

I need to get a decent cap and ball revolver again. I've had a couple. I tried to interest some of my friends in shooting Western scenario shoots using more realistic firearms than Hollywood B Western Model 92's and SAA's with very limited success. I wanted to play a game of "shoot to solve" a problem stages using guns that settlers, farmers, ranchers, Deputies and every day folks might have with them when confronted with a need to shoot. SASS's two revolver, a levergun, a shotgun, (with Model 97 Winchesters preferred), a pocket pistol, well anyway, I'll short circuit my own diatribe.

One shoot we had this stage. You are sleeping under a wagon, wrapped in a real wool blanket. Gun belt off, one handgun, loaded with 5 rounds in your holster near you, one long gun. I chose a .44 Dragoon loaded with 45 grains of the real deal and a double barrel percussion shotgun. Your slumber is broken by five men with bad intent sneaking into your camp. A horse is disturbed and a hasty shot is fired in your general direction indicating this is no harmless social call. At the action signal I engaged the two most threatening targets with the shotgun and the next three with the 5 rounds in my revolver. Smoke engulfed the stage, leaking up through the wooden planks in the old wooden farm wagon bed. The spectators thought it hilarious and thought provoking.

I wanted to replace the nipples on the Dragoon in an attempt to get a better fit for the large number of RWS #1075 caps I had procured. I got a set of quality nipples designed for Pietta threading only to discover the darnedest thing I have ever come across in a firearm. Three of the chambers had the correct thread and the other three were entirely different! I got rid of that shortly thereafter.

Now I'd like to find a good clean Uberti Navy Colt clone just to use up some of my black powder and caps. So Glassparman good on you, smoke on!

 

[glassparman]

Wow, thanks a million for all the great info!

I read about changing the nipples so I was looking at the ones from Track of the Wolf.

The caps I found are 11s but I found a guy near me selling packs of 1k for cheap so I bought 3k. Not that I'll ever use them all but hey, they were cheaper than primers are these days! LOL.

Got lots of Goex because I load BP for my trapdoor and my Kropatschek. I have several pounds of FFFg as well.

Mike

 

[Maven]

FFFg is what you want although Pyrodex P is OK too. However, with real BP, and frankly Pyrodex as well, you should damp swab the bbl. after every cylinder full (6 shots). Don't ask....

 

[Winelover]

Never ran into having to swab the barrel, between every cylinder full, using Pyrodex "P" and bore butter.

I only do that at the end of the shooting session.

 

[RBHarter]

You'll want to check the bore/groove/chamber . I have a 58' that has nice even chambers at .448/9 the barrel is .440×.426 as such I could get by fine with .451 balls . There is plenty of forcing cone .

The chambers are .448 to .450 in an Armi San Marco 1860 and a 2nd Model Dragoon also an ASM both with .440 grooves .

The important part is that your ball has full circumstance chamber contact with the chamber and a .06-.1 seal face between the ball and chamber wall .
It is generally accepted that chain fires happen from the highspeed hot gasses entering between the ball and chamber wall .
I've seen a little bit of high-speed , no longer available , footage that would tend to suggest that it's more common with illfitting caps .

Dead soft for the balls you have a poor.weak assembly for ramming them home while you can get a .458 ball in a .488 hole a .451 goes a whole lot easier .

Even a .458 won't shave if the chambers have been chamfered , just a line that breaks the hard square edge off the chambers .

Straight white Crisco grease will get you started .
If you're using olivebee wads in your 45-70 etc go ahead and us them under the ball .
Lithium white greese for the base pin.

For open top types shim the axle inside the frame for about .004-5 cylinder clearance to prevent chamber to barrel binding . Yes chamber mouth grease is messy but the first time I shot the brass 58' it was all but locked up tight by the end 12 rounds the last time I shot it at a Rondy I fired like 100 rounds the first day just wiping off the frame every reload .

 

[CZ93X62]

Lots of great info above.

My first post on the site via my smart asp phone. Still a Luddite, but somewhat trainable

 

[Snakeoil]

The hardest part of shooting a front stuffer is getting the order right. First powder, then patch, then ball. Yes, sounds simple. It's not. Myself included; I cannot tell you how many seasoned muzzleloaders I've shot with have forgotten step one. You will do it at some point so be prepared. There are two solutions that are better than trying to pull the ball.

1. Remove the nipple and trickle powder into the hole, tap to get it into the chamber, repeat and then install the nipple and fire.
2. Compressed air shot into the nipple with a tight seal. Granted, you need a compressor if you are at the range.

There is another final step that really needs to be part of the list above. That is remove the ramrod before firing. Again, sounds pretty obvious. But we have spent quite a bit of time downrange looking for errant ramrods. You will know when you do it because the recoil will be about double what you normally feel. It's part of the right of passage as a muzzleloader. I've still managed to escape the rod going downrange. But I'm an expert at loading the gun thru the nipple port.

 

[RBHarter]

I have had a bum charge or 2 force me to pull the nipple .
I have not yet left the ram rod ..... I have picked up a TC ram rod jag/ball tip while sifting bullets . Tied up the Dragoon the first time I shot it too when the ram lever fell down . An OM design flaw skillfully reproduced by every maker .

 

[RBHarter]

I found this kind of by accident. I knew it was there I had just forgotten about it and stumbled on it last night . The "Goon" often seen as 45 Dragoon does very nice tuning work specifically on Colts open tops and wrote this up for open consumption on Gunslingers Gulch . Due to bots etc you have to know someone to get registered...... Closed private forum now due to the bots and spam . Tons of great C&B information though .
Anyway I took the liberty of a cut and paste .
If you only do the basic frame fitting and clean up the main spring burrs it makes a huge difference in usability.

Instructions for Tuned Open Tops by Goon

Instructions for Maintaining the Specs in Your Open Top Revolver

Remove and replace the barrel with a straight off/straight on motion. Do not twist. This could upset the arbor bedding.
Trigger guard removal/replacement: The action stop is located on the trigger guard. It must be installed exactly the same way every time it's installed or timing may be affected.
-When removing: loosen the front screw (removes torque), then remove the 2 rear screws.
-When reinstalling: Install the front screw but DO NOT tighten (leave about a turn before it touches). Doing this first, helps you to align the 2 rear screws. Tighten the rear screws (doesn't matter which one first). This locates the stop. Then, tighten the front screw, this torques the rear screws and the guard is installed in the tuned position.
Arbor set screw: The arbor has a set screw in the end which acts as the front bearing for the wedge. This gives you an adjustable bearing and allows you to compensate for wear to the wedge. See instructions for break-in.
The Combination trigger/bolt spring (as well as the main spring) has a SPACER UNDER it. I know it looks like a washer but it is a spacer to reduce the tension so each side can be tuned individually. Remember: The SPACER goes UNDER the spring.

*If the timing ever seems "off," make sure the Hammer screw and the trigger and bolt screw pins are tight. These are very close tolerance machines now and everything makes a difference.


Instructions for Break-In

Arbor Set Screw Adjustment: As with any new mechanical device, there is a certain amount of "wear-in." The same is true with a reconfigured arbor in an open top revolver. New cut threads are going to move some so, here is what to do:
Load as normal/(shoot your normal charge) and pay attention to the wedge the first 2 or 3 shots. If it loosens push it in further and maintain a tight fit. If you carry an Allen wrench with you to the range, you can adjust the set screw there ( 44 cal.1/8" or 36 cal.-3/32") Otherwise, just push or tap the wedge in to keep things tight until you can adjust the set screw. This movement will stop at some point and the gun will be more like a solid revolver. There also may be little or no movement. These guns are as individual as you and I. (I use a drop of blue thread locker to keep the set screw still. It will allow for adjustments but use more if it feels loose.)
The barrel/cylinder gap is an easy sign that the wedge has moved. Even though the arbor fitment defines the gap, the wedge keeps them together

 

[popper]

OK, just curious. In war, they clean often? In a 2-3 hr battle you won't fire that much but wow, 100 rnds easy.

 

[RBHarter]

Not unless they were entrenched . Hand to hand , lances , bayonets , and swords were standards even into the early days of WWI . Volleys only lasted until the 2nd line was cut to bits . 7-8 rounds . The 7-8" barrels and wedged ramming levers became bludgeons .

 

[fiver]

there wasn't a whole lot of back and forth trench fighting.
heck house to house fighting only happened once that i know of in the civil war, and that probably wouldn't have happened but a town was in between one set of woods and another during a running fight.