Taming The M1 Garand With Cast Bullets

[quicksylver]

Well it's been quite a learning experience...there has been a lot of compromise on both sides..

I am beginning to understand it better and it has rewarded my patience by performing a bit better...

So I've got it functioning 100% using either a 5 round clip or loading loose 5 rounds into an 8 round clip..
and BTW the clips do make a difference..some work flawlessly and some are finicky...

After sending a couple of hundred rounds down range I settled on the 314299 with the 304 nose, cast of 4-4-92 alloy, sized .310..lubed with BR and LIGHLTY rolled on BLL

The best results so far were with either 29.5 grs H4895 or 29.6grs of AA4064..I will work my way up just a LITTLE from here to see if things improve or go down hill....

Best OAL so far seems to be between 3.260 and 3.265...

The cases end up about 4' out at 1:00...stacked up very nicely....

The weather this morning was rainy and windy but it cleared out around noon so I scooted to the range..a little late in the day for iron sights (the range is oriented East to West so timing is critical)...but maybe good enough for a couple of rounds..

After having to reassemble the backstops because of the high winds I was able to sit down and get a couple of rounds off before the sun moved enough to make shooting iron sights next to impossible for me..(the shadows from the trees come over the target backstops this time of year)..it doesn't bother scope shooting but turns iron sight shooting into pure guess work...enough setting up excuses..

My first five rounds were spent on try a new style of target...a folded in half 100 yd small bore target..according to Bruce B. it's supposed to be the cat's behind for iron sights...well it was a behind anyways...after two rounds I couldn't see it anymore..but hey those two rounds were in the same hole..

So next..I ran down to the back stop and hung up a 5.5" bWC "Shoot & See" target on white paper where the sun was still hitting the back stop....ran back to the bench..THE SHADOWS WERE COMING!

Here is the results of the five rounds I got off....I lost the last two as the target turned into a fuzzy grey mass...

I am also posting a picture of the fired brass..the commercial stuff sure takes a beating as you can see but I think it works better with these low pressure rounds.,

The cases come out pretty clean (see picture)

I am also posting a picture of my side wider rig I made up for my spotting scope.... ($1.50 and some spray paint)..no more having to stand after each round ..

Dan S.

 

[JWFilips]

Dan,
At 100 yds open sights that is darn good shooting!
So, You didn't like the half moon target?
With those loads what do you think the FPS was at? No shooting plain base with lite loads in that one!

 

[Ian]

Should be around 1900 fps or so with the 4895. I can barely manage a 2" group with tang sight and front aperture @100 yards with a Sharps, I'm really impressed with the shooting as well as with the handloading. Those Garands do have very nice sights on them, one of my all-time favorite open-sight systems, but the eyes, well, not so great past 50-60 yards.

Hat's off to you Dan, building accurate ammunition for the self-loading rifles is a completely different ballgame than for bolters, and you seem to have it figured out.

 

[quicksylver]

Dan,
At 100 yds open sights that is darn good shooting!
So, You didn't like the half moon target?
With those loads what do you think the FPS was at? No shooting plain base with lite loads in that one!

Jim..
actually I like the Half-Moon Target a lot problem was I just couldn't center the sights on it I lost the definition of the targets in the shadows... what I like best about it is what Bruce B said..
is that trying to hold your elevation under the target is much easier with that style than a round target .....as for the velocity ..Ian says he thinks it's around 1900 I'm thinking it's about 1750 but I will check when I get back to my reloading manuals and yes I do expect to shoot plain base out of it by simply taking out the gas cylinder plug... I've done that before

 

[quicksylver]

Boy is that true..after tackling this reloading for a bolt seems as easy as throwing components into a bucket shaking them up and shooting whatever comes out... (not reslly..but you get the idea)..

Now I can appreciate what the guys are going through to try and get the AR shooting cast...

 

[quicksylver]

Boy trying to post as you drive ain't easy either.. (and a lot dumber)

 

[quicksylver]

My lyman 3rd edition cast bullet manual says about 1650 ..they list 30 grs of 4895 at 1668fps

 

[JWFilips]

Pretty darn good in my book!

 

[Ian]

Quickload says 1649 fps with H4895 and 1551 with the AA4064, not accounting for the gas system losses. Sorry, I was thinking 308 velocities with the 4895 load.

Both loads are in the low 5,000's at 22" from the breech face, so you have a lot headroom left on port pressure (if you want it) even with the slow powder.

 

[smokeywolf]

Wonderful write-up Dan. Very impressive shooting. With my eyes, I'm ecstatic if I can do half that well.
Your cases, very clean, but looking at the bases, how many times have they been chambered and extracted?

 

[Brad]

Nice shooting. Finding an accurate load that also cycles the action is a worthy accomplishment. Well done.

 

[quicksylver]

Ian thanks...that all makes sense..the AA4064 although i am sure is spot on is a little lower than I want...when and if you get a chance could you try and figure where I need to be with the aa4064 load to get to 1659 fps ?... thanks ..Dan

 

[freebullet]

Spectacular! With open sights to boot, stellar shooting.

 

[quicksylver]

Wonderful write-up Dan. Very impressive shooting. With my eyes, I'm ecstatic if I can do half that well.
Your cases, very clean, but looking at the bases, how many times have they been chambered and extracted?

SM...I know what you are ssying..at 69 I am pretty much a seasonal iron sight guy..summers with good light I can still pretty much hold my own..but in the winter months I have to pick my days...thst's why some of my guns have scopes..so I can shoot year round..

As for the cases I would say the Commercial Winchesters are on their 12th loading...alot for being fired out of an M1..but as I said these are low pressure rounds compared to hard ball loads...much easier to FL resize as well..

 

[quicksylver]

Spectacular! With open sights to boot, stellar shooting.

Thanks FB...can't wait for Spring and good light to see what this can really do...

 

[Ian]

Ian thanks...that all makes sense..the AA4064 although i am sure is spot on is a little lower than I want...when and if you get a chance could you try and figure where I need to be with the aa4064 load to get to 1659 fps ?... thanks ..Dan

31.5 grains AA4064 with the same data set gets 1651. I'm using standard data for everything except cartridge length, so this will be off somewhat from your actual case capacity, bullet weight, etc, but in the ballpark. Still only about 5600 psi at the port.

 

[quicksylver]

31.5 grains AA4064 with the same data set gets 1651. I'm using standard data for everything except cartridge length, so this will be off somewhat from your actual case capacity, bullet weight, etc, but in the ballpark. Still only about 5600 psi at the port.

Ian..thanks again...that's perfect...it will be interesting to see how the gun reacts to a slower powder pushing the same bullet to the same velocity...the only thing i am sure of is that the cases will end up in a diffent place...

 

[Reed]

I am also posting a picture of the fired brass..the commercial stuff sure takes a beating as you can see but I think it works better with these low pressure rounds.

Awesome shooting, especially under the conditions you describe. In the veteran's honor guard I'm in, we fire blanks in M1 rifles. Even with those anemic loads the M1 action beats up the cases pretty good.