YUUUUCK!!!!

[Ian]

So. I have a few boxes of 2008-vintage 45 ACP loaded with Universal Clays and some really purty Lyman Devastator hollow points, AKA flying ashtrays. I shot a few of them recently in one of my 1911s and they're starting to suffer a little from age, and earlier today I loaded and shot a few fresh ones to see how my AR-45 liked them (did fine), so I decided to empty a couple of the old boxes of them through this extremely efficient de-loading device. MISTAKE. They shot fine, don't get me wrong, but after two hours the smoke cloud is still hanging over the canyon here, and my poor carbine looks like it was buried in blacktop, stomped on, dipped in 50-year-old axle grease, and sprinkled with crushed charcoal. The bolt's gas rings were so leaded that I had to pry them off with a pick, and it took me the better part of an hour to get the gas system cleaned out. I haven't even started on the barrel, not sure if it's leaded or not. All the cases are covered in black, crusty goop, and the flash suppressor is caked with carbon and dripping with nasty greasy bullet lube residue. I still don't know how in the world I'm going to get my receiver-mounted brass catcher bag clean again. Plus, I have a sinus headache.

These are the last bullets I have that I lubed with Javalina Alox. Never again.

Having some much better lubes (particularly better for gas-operated semi-automatics) has sort of spoiled me, and I'm simply don't worry about lube residue or leaded gas systems. Guess I'd better mention that I use soap lubes next time I volunteer that I don't get much in the way of leading in my gas guns.

 

[Brad]

Smoke is an issue. My modified Felix lube is pretty smokey. In the 300 BLK I had to wait for the smoke to clear enough to find the target again.

I may try some TNT in the 300 to see if it works, it won't smoke.

Would a soak in some ATF help remove the grunge?

 

[Ian]

I get a considerable bit of smoke out of the action of my 300 BLK, but I keep the BCG swimming in Royal Purple gun oil. The gas vents get 'injected' before every range session. I did notice a good puff of muzzle smoke in your video, THAT is a lot less with the high-soap lubes. I bet TnT would work very well with subsonic loads, not so sure about supers.

I'm going to have to study this cleaning problem I have now, don't want to ruin my fancy spray paint job! A little mineral spirits and a toothbrush worked fine on a few parts to get the gunk off and didn't hurt the paint.

 

[L1A1Rocker]

I wonder how worse it would be with Herco?

 

[Ian]

After about 100 rounds with Herco and SL-68.1 lube on the bullets it wasn't half this filthy, and the flash suppressor had only the faintest haze of soot on it.

 

[Pistolero]

Hmm. Don't notice much smoke with my loads with Javalina, but I have never
used Universal. Mostly Unique, 2400 and TG in my loads with NRA 50-50. Guns get
dirty, but not sure I would describe a 1911 after a couple hundred rounds that way,
with TG powder. Maybe the Universal combines badly with the Javelina.

Bill

 

[Ian]

Bill, this is a direct-gas-impingement AR-15 chambered in .45 ACP. The gas port is .125" and located about 3/8" forward of the front of the chamber. With faster-burning powders, it is the very definition of dirty since the bolt is starting to unlock while pressure is near peak. LOTS of half-burned powder and lube goes through the gas system. I've been using Herco to provide more dwell time and a longer gas pulse, which helps reliability and believe it or not, cleanliness. Herco is very sooty and stinky, but when combined with soap lube in this system it at least BURNS and doesn't goober-up everything.

 

[Pistolero]

OK,I thought that the 1911s were also super gunked up, too. I can see that pressurized lube in the lube groove, passing the
port would feed a slug of lube up the gas tube, immediately followed by a slug of partially burned/still burning pistol
powder - and probably burning the lube in tube, at that. And all of this goes down the gas tube and is forced into the inside of the
bolt carrier and out the three gas vents on the side. Yeah, that ought to be pretty yuukie.
My experience was only in the 1911 end of the process, and rereading - your main thrust
was in the AR end of the discussion. I had read it that you were shooting through both
guns, but rereading, you were mostly shooting them in the AR. Sloppy reading on my part.

I didn't realize that the pistol ARs were still gas powered, I had thought that they switched over to blowback operation
like the .22 LR conversion units. I have seen a few 9mms and a friend made a special lower for .45 ACP to take Thompson
mags, but never paid real close attention to the actual operation.

Bill

 

[Ian]

I shot just a magazine full through two of my 1911s to do a little magazine check per our other discussion. I burned almost three boxes in the AR-45. There's a lot of blowback from the bore, too, and filth going back around the case and into the barrel extension and all back into the action, magazine, FCG, charging handle groove, etc. It's a mess.

 

[Pistolero]

How did the 1911s function? Ever verify extractor tension, bottom edge rounding and
polishing? different mag types?

Bill

 

[Ian]

They both fed the 452374 HPs fine from the same Wilson parallel-lip magazine. I need to do a lot more testing with different bullet styles and magazines, I just wanted to make sure they both cycled the HP load as well as I remembered it and re-establish the baseline for further testing. The 1911s blacked the cases pretty badly compared to my soap lube loads that I've been shooting in them for the past couple of years with same powder (HP-38) and a different bullet.

 

[Pistolero]

374 is not much of a challenge in feeding!
Have you hand cycled these RN rounds to see if they slide under the extractor
or get pushed ahead of it?

Bill

 

[Ian]

Oh yes, they go under the extractor reliably on both when I use the parallel magazine, though there is a little bobble due to the increased angle of the cartridge. I didn't shoot any of these with the hybrid magazines, but hand-cycling is first rate with the Colt and problematic with the Kimber, sort of the same issue as the SWC with the case shooting out ahead of the extractor but instead of every time it is less frequent using the 452374 HP.

 

[Pistolero]

Starting to think that Kimber was mismachined at the factory and needs to get
a replacement slide under warranty.

Bill