10 yard rapid"ish" fire

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
200 rounds from the 1911 at 10 yards today. It was humid as hell. It rained earlier in the day. Humidity must have been over 70%. Glasses wanted to fog.
I don't like the ones I pushed low at all.
Learned that I need different grips. The Pachs let the gun move too much.
I also have a couple magazines that want to jam on the second to last round. I don't like that. This is a new development with those magazines.
 

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freebullet

Guest
Looks minute of bad guy to me.

Maybe just clean & lube the mag? Maybe new spring if...
 

yodogsandman

Well-Known Member
Looks good to me, Brad! Is your trigger stiff? Maybe those low ones are from the hand movement with those grips like you've said.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Trigger is pretty light. It is me pushing forward rather than just squeezing the trigger. Totally a shooter induced error.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Not bad for rapidish.... What can you do in slow fire at that distance?

Tight grip helps a lot. For a long time I concentrated on the little and ring finger of strong hand each draw
to squeeze as hard as I could. The intent was that my 'milking the grip' problem couldn't or couldn't as easily
occur if those fingers were already at max effort. Helped a lot. But also lots of slow fire at 10 yds literally trying
to put a bullet EXACTLY where I wanted it. Once you know just where a gun is shooting, say 1/2" left and 1 " high,
you can start holding off and using another bullet hole (with a .45 ACP SWC hole) as the point if impact, using whatever
Kentucky windage you need. No reason not be able to put a bullet within 1/2" or so of where you intend in slow
fire from 10 yds, standing. I have spend several hundred rounds this way in a morning very profitably. REALLY forces
concentration on trigger control, and the other basics, grip, sight alignment, breathing. The instantaneous
feedback of seeing the new hole is critical for this to help. OK, that was 3/4" to the right, so I will hold a bit
more left. Bang! Oh, I pulled that one down 2", need to tighten grip, or improve trigger squeeze. Bang!
That was right where I intended. Can I do it again? Bang? Nope, pulled is down again, concentrate - front
sight sharp, tighten two bottom fingers, squeeze when lined up, hold what you have as it drifts off.....Bang!


Sort of a stream of conciousness of what is running through my brain while I do this excercise. It can really
help a lot.

As far as "totally shooter induced error", yep, I got a box of merit badges in that.

Bill
 
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Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Slow fire I can better that by half or more. Problem I run into is shooter fatigue.

Bill, I am have issues with the second to last round jamming. It looks like it partially chambers but not enough for the slide to go forward fully. Jam is very consistant in location and type.

This is a new problem. When I was loading with 4.5 gr of Promo I had no issues, now I'm at 5.2 gr and this starts happening. Still below book max with an HG 68 type swc.
Recoil spring is pretty new, magazines are Checkmate 7 RD with hybrid lips and a Wolff extra power spring.
Any suggestions? The rounds function fine when reloaded into another magazine so the ammo is fine.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
First is what LOA? With a real H&G 68 or most commercial copies, newer guns with very tight match
chambers with no real throats will not tolerate longer than 1.250. In my Colts I always ran them at
1.260-1.270, but they had generous throats. When I bought my first Dan Wesson I had to change
to 1.250 after 28 years of running at 1.260-1.270. The was an obvious mark on the bullet shoulder by the
rifling start and chamber edge in that case.

This sounds perhaps like the kind of problem where a tighter taper crimp was how we solved it in IPSC ammo,
if LOA was OK. The FTC was thought to be due to crud in the chamber being scraped forward, building a ridge at the
end of the chamber and the loose TC catching more crud, scraping it forward. If I was talking to an IPSC guy, I'd
start with LOA, then a bit more TC, with a RCBS/Lee short taper type of TC die. Slide over the crud, leave it in place.
I used to clean my Gold Cup every 6 months, which was around every 5,000 rds or so when I was really
active. I did put one drop of BreakFree on the chamber exterior with slide closed and on the barrel exterior tip at l
ockback before each practice session or match. Cruddy but it always ran perfectly with tight TC ammo. For newbies,
I'd just pop a round out of a mag, hand it to them and say - "match this one with LOA and TC". Always worked.

I have never seen a powder charge change cause a last round, 2nd last rd, jam. I wonder if something else changed
like TC or seating depth at the same time.

Not all guns like all mag designs. The majority of 1911s that I have will feed everything reliably from an
original tapered lip type GI/John Browning design mag. Hybrids are generally very good, too, and most
guns will feed most ammo from the newer parallel lip, early release mags.....BUT not all are equally happy
with each style of mag. My Ltwt Colt Commander never once actually jammed with hybrid or parallel lip mags,
but it had a very noticable hitch in the feed cycle when racking the first round, and you could find a spot if
you tried carefully where it would hang, just sit there - only at zero speed, never,ever happened while shooting. I
switched it to original tapered lip GI/Browning style and hand cycled it will not hang, no matter how I tried,
and the normal first round racking was perfectly slick and smooth. That is my daily carry gun and gets
only GI/Browning style mags. The one in the magwell is a very early factory nickel Colt mag with a
milled, pinned baseplate. I have never, ever found a slicker mag than a nickel plated mag, bar none. Ammo
moves slickly, and the mag goes into the well and back out like it is greased. IMO, nickeled mags are
the best possible magazines, bar none - problem is that they are nearly impossible to find. I bought a
batch in the 80s and have them still, great mags. The seller said that they were "overruns from a special order
for a middle east shiek's personal bodyguards" might be true, why I can never find any more.

Last round issues are sometimes attributed to the lack of a bump on the mag follower - the purpose is said to keep
the round from moving fwd uncontrolled. Personally, I have never proven this to myself, just heard it
as "conventional wisdom". Doesn't seem like this has anything to do with second to last round, tho.

My typical move for a mag that has a problem when others do not, is to relegate it to practice only mags
with a paint dab on base until it is 100% certain that it is a bad boy and then toss or give away to someone
who doesn't mind an occasional jam. On thing I got over in IPSC was any attachment at all to a mag which had
not really earned some loyalty. I have some mags that I have run many, many thousands of round through and
the never bobble, but you learn to keep new ones on a 'apprenticeship program' until they prove that they can
run. Once they are proven, they become valued members of the team.

Bill
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
my type-99 will half jam number-4 every single time if I limp wrist the pistol.
it doesn't stove pipe or jam the feed ramp, it just partially goes into the chamber and stops.
I have to do the pull, shake, let go, routine.
 

Winelover

North Central Arkansas
Good shooting, Brad. We would kill for 70% humidity, around here. Last Saturday morning, when Rick and I was shooting, out back....the humidity had to be in the 90's. We were both soaking wet. Only energy that we expended was loading the magazines. We even drove the "limo" to the sand berm.

BTW, the new Sig P320 hasn't experienced a jam or FTF in over 300 rounds. Two hundred of which were cast in three different bullet persuasions. No wonder the military is switching from the Beretta to the Sig.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
What's that song - 'anticipation'? I have the same problem, unconsciously anticipating the boom and push to compensate for recoil. Shows up real good when you have a dummy stuck in there someplace. Gets worse with a long string of rapid fire. Grips probably have nothing to do with it. Also worse with timed run & gun & your increased load. Check mag before you let the next to last chamber - nose touching the front of mag?
 

Longone

Active Member
What mags are they and how old are they? I think fiver has the answer, weak mag springs have trouble keeping up with the slide.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Yep. Wolff extra power springs. Mags stored empty. Might have 5k rounds tops since springs replaced.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
It wasn't even an issue until the last couple range trips. These mags were 100% reliable until then. It isn't every mag but 4-6 jams in 200 rounds doesn't cut it.

That is the same place I got mine with wadcutter lips. I might need to but more, I only have 5 magazines.
 

Longone

Active Member
Can you measure the feedlip width to see if they have spread? Anyone adjusted the extractor or changed it? Next range trip mark the mags giving the issue with masking tape or marker and give them a good looking over, if it's just a couple it should be easy to isolate.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I think I would still pull them apart and look for some dirt or a burr.
the same round each time could be something in the magazine catching or tipping the follower at that point.
it being multiple magazines doing it could be the latch hole [notch on the magazine] or latch in the gun itself moving or wiggling at an angle when you get to that weight in the pistol.