.22 Hornet and the NOE .225-45-WFN-GC

[Glen]

I've been playing around with the cute little NOE .225-45-WFN-GC

in a 10" .22 Hornet Contender. Size .225" and lube with homemade moly lube. Seated over 11.5 grains of AA 1680 and a CCI 400 primer, gives 2035 fps and excellent accuracy (3 shot groups at 50 yards have been running 3/8").

 

[KHornet]

Don't have that mold, but do have the 225415, similar to it, and in both standard and HP versions. Don't have any 1680 either, but if I can find some will try your load.

 

[Glen]

I've had very good results using 1680 in .25-20, and read Ken Waters chapter on the .22 Hornet and he liked it a lot, so that's where I started.

 

[JWFilips]

My Buddy Ed is trying to shoot a plain base version of that in his hornet. Light loads of Bullseye ....but not doing well

 

[9.3X62AL]

I have wanted to try AA-1680 in 25-20, but the only 1# flask I have seen in the past 4 years I bought and used up in 22 Hornet ammo with J-words.

I did get some good outcomes with #225438 and 9.0 grains a 2400 from my Ruger #3 in 22 Hornet.

 

[KHornet]

That is a good load Al. Have shot it w/HP's in my hornet and K.

 

[JonB]

My Buddy Ed is trying to shoot a plain base version of that in his hornet. Light loads of Bullseye ....but not doing well

Is Ed seating with a Lee seater die ?
I had incredible runout issues with that exact bullet when seating with a Lee die, the meplat is just too large for the seater plug and therefore the bullet isn't guided. I ended up getting a Bonanza BR seater die, problem solved.

 

[JWFilips]

JonB
I believe he is using a RCBS die set....but I understand what you are saying!

I bet if I had his rifle & dies I could get it working! I Know that he is dropping his powder without weighing each load...If you are loading light that is a kiss of death.
At 2 grains BE you can't afford to be off a few tenths on either side. And I sure wouldn't be doing serious testing with a hornet at this time of the year in NEPA The weather and Wind are too unpredictable
Jim

 

[KHornet]

You are most definitely right on little cases like the hornet and bee Jim. With lite charges of fast powers they require exact weighed charges. A 1//10 of a grain of Bullseye or Unique, or Red Dot etc. in a little hornet size case can make a world of difference. I have a BR seating die (think it is also a Bonanza die) that I seat hornet/Khornet/222 & 233 with. Also a big factor in hornet is making sure that you are just neck sizing (to save brass), and going deep enough with an M die to start the bullet straight before seating. My rule of thumb is it must be deep enough so that if the bullet is a GC, it will start below the top of the gc. Takes a bit of fiddeling to get the setting on the m die just right, and you need to go slow in the process, because hornet brass is very thin and easy to mess up. It is a fun ctg, but with cast, and in particular with lite weight bullets and very lite charges it is very temperamental. I am working with the little 37gr. PB NOE bullet in my K, and it is a real challenge. However when you get under an inch on a calm day (of which we have few), it is all worth it.

 

[Ben]

You guys are having way too much fun.

Ben

 

[JWFilips]

Just out of curiosity How Is a Bonanza BR Seating die different?

 

[KHornet]

Not sure of the guts of the thing as I never took it apart following the philosophy that "if it works I don't fix it". Know there is some kind of spring mechanism in the thing, but that's about all I know.

 

[JonB]

Forster Bought-out and/or uses the Bonanza BR design...they are one in the same.

http://www.forsterproducts.com/prod...-bench-rest-rifle-reloading-dies/seater-dies/

 

[JWFilips]

JonB
Thanks Good diagram seems like this would work for Jacketed bullets but what about the fatter cast bullets? Bet they would
get sized down going in to the upper section (?) If it is supposed to hold the bullet in line with the case it probably has to be a high tolerance
system.

OK I just read their instructions and it seems that custom service is available on the seating stem ...not sure if it can be for bullet diameter or are they just talking nose shape(?)

 

[Stonecrusher]

Jon
Thanks Good diagram seems like this would work for Jacketed bullets but what about the fatter cast bullets? Bet they would
get sized down going in to the upper section (?) If it is supposed to hold the bullet in line with the case it probably has to be a high tolerance
system.
OK I just read their instructions and it seems that custom service is available on the seating stem ...not sure if it can be for bullet diameter or are they just talking nose shape(?)

I have a set of these for .243 Win. They are really nice dies and you are right about the size of the bullet guide section. Mine is somewhere under .245", probably only about .244" but I can't remember. I use them with the 246105. When I started I was getting a scuff mark about .030" long on the first band when seating and was going to lap it out to accept my .2465" diameter but found that it is possible to adjust the seating stem far enough out to avoid that.

This wouldn't work for a bullet with a longer bearing surface and the bullet isn't suppported as was intended, but with proper use of an m-die runout is very minimal.

 

[KHornet]

Nice diagrams. All I know for sure is mine works slick for cast or jacketed in 222 & 223, and centers the bullet well on the K.

 

[JWFilips]

Paul,
I would be interested in knowing If you were to remove the upper part of the die body and take the seating stem out
Would a .226" sized bullet drop through the upper part of the die chamber? Seems to me if it were made for a .224" jacketed bullet the .226" cast bullet will be resized

 

[Brad]

My 30-06 Forster BR seater handles a .311 bullet just fine.
I would expec that they make them with a bit of wiggle room.

 

[Rick]

My 30-06 Forster BR seater handles a .311 bullet just fine.
I would expec that they make them with a bit of wiggle room.

I don't have any of the Forster dies but not so with the Redding. The only cast round that I can use one of these Redding dies with is my 357 FA revolver and only that one because I have to size to .357" or I can't chamber the rounds. Any larger and the Redding seats the bullet just fine with one minor little problem, after it seats the bullet it then pulls it right back out stuck in the die.

.

 

[Brad]

Just did some checking with pin gauges on the alignment sleeve on my 223 seater.
The area that is bullet diameter will barely take a .225 pin. The neck area will accept a .257 pin.
The bullet nose should easily enter the section that holds just the bullet up to the pont it is too big, or over .225. At that point it becomes part of the seating action. The bullet will enter the case mouth easier than it will size down.
I was worried more about the neck section as if it was small and necks thick the bullet could be sized down. My die won't do that until necks exceed .015 and that is a pretty thick neck on a 223 case.

Rick, your situation is what I was worried about. After measuring my seater I am not concerned. If I was using a short nosed Loverin style bullet with a .225 leading band it might become an issue.

Just shows that a die might be great in one situation and be a train wreck in another.