357446 HP
- Thread starter Ben
- Start date
Glen,
I read your article, looks like your experiences with the 446' mirror mine.
So many people bad mouth this bullet.
Not me ! !
Ben
3
358156hp
Guest
On the brighter side, I just won an auction for a SC 357446. Guess what it's fate is gonna be.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Another mold design which I have never tried..... Looks good. I was never a fan of the 358156,
partly due to the GCs, which I find an entirely unnecessary waste of time and money for all
the pistols I have worked with. I have a mold, and use it from time to time, but so far, I
find nothing better than PB molds deliver. Much happier with 358477 and 358429, plus the wonderful
Lee 38 158RF a "new age" design which has worked superbly for me. With the WC molds
that I am currently getting set up to test (Lee 148TL, H&G 50, Lyman 358495 and RCBS
38-148-WC), I should be pretty set for .38/.357 molds for quite a while.
Currently not able to keep up with working out loads for the molds I have in stock, so may
not get to that one for a few decades, if I have a few decades left in me- and I hope I do.
Bill
partly due to the GCs, which I find an entirely unnecessary waste of time and money for all
the pistols I have worked with. I have a mold, and use it from time to time, but so far, I
find nothing better than PB molds deliver. Much happier with 358477 and 358429, plus the wonderful
Lee 38 158RF a "new age" design which has worked superbly for me. With the WC molds
that I am currently getting set up to test (Lee 148TL, H&G 50, Lyman 358495 and RCBS
38-148-WC), I should be pretty set for .38/.357 molds for quite a while.
Currently not able to keep up with working out loads for the molds I have in stock, so may
not get to that one for a few decades, if I have a few decades left in me- and I hope I do.
Bill
Bill,
No gas checks needed with this one either !
I bought this 38 / 357 Mag. 3 cav. mould several years ago.
I believe it to be an old Cramer.
If I'm correct and it is a Cramer, it pre-dates 1953.
There are no markings on the mould anywhere.
There is no identification on the sprue plate or on the mould blocks.
Must be pretty old ? ?
Cast very nice bullets. Has a generous lube groove like the 477 and 429.
The lube groove on this Cramer has a square bottom lube groove.
Reminds me a lot of the 358477 in its general shape and weight .
You can crank out some bullets with this mould, I spun a bullet in each cavity with fine Clovers abrasive on the bullets. The bullets " jump " from all 3 cavities now when the mould is opened. The mould has very small holes in the sprue plate for alloy to travel through. Doesn't seem to affect the mould at all having such small holes.
The bullets size out nice and round at .358" ( with all 3 bands miking .358" ) , which suits my needs very well. Very accurate in all the 38/357 Mag. revolvers that I've shot it in.
I only wish I had the chance to last as long as this mould will last.
Here are some photos :
The bullets are amazingly consistent in weight , cavity to cavity.
No gas checks needed with this one either !
I bought this 38 / 357 Mag. 3 cav. mould several years ago.
I believe it to be an old Cramer.
If I'm correct and it is a Cramer, it pre-dates 1953.
There are no markings on the mould anywhere.
There is no identification on the sprue plate or on the mould blocks.
Must be pretty old ? ?
Cast very nice bullets. Has a generous lube groove like the 477 and 429.
The lube groove on this Cramer has a square bottom lube groove.
Reminds me a lot of the 358477 in its general shape and weight .
You can crank out some bullets with this mould, I spun a bullet in each cavity with fine Clovers abrasive on the bullets. The bullets " jump " from all 3 cavities now when the mould is opened. The mould has very small holes in the sprue plate for alloy to travel through. Doesn't seem to affect the mould at all having such small holes.
The bullets size out nice and round at .358" ( with all 3 bands miking .358" ) , which suits my needs very well. Very accurate in all the 38/357 Mag. revolvers that I've shot it in.
I only wish I had the chance to last as long as this mould will last.
Here are some photos :
The bullets are amazingly consistent in weight , cavity to cavity.
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Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Ben,
That looks just like my RCBS 38-150-K, which they now call 38-150-SWC. I think they got calls
because it wasn't really a Keith design, too short of a nose. But, mine will essentially drop into
a 358477 mold, which has the smaller rounded lube groove. Either one is a really excellent
bullet, and since yours looks almost exactly like it, not surprising how well it works.
I think Lachmiller was bought out by RCBS, is it possible that this is a Lachmiller mold? I
really am not knowledgeable about identifying these older molds, and have no Lachmiller
or Cramer molds in stock. Is there some corporate connection between Cramer and RCBS?
Did anyone buy Cramer out when they stopped producing molds? I have no idea about the
history of Cramer - but I'll bet Glen can fill us in.
Seems like that basic design, with a thick base band, and one wide or two narrow lube grooves
satisfies the requirements for a good .38/.357 bullet.
By the way, GREAT pictures!
Bill
That looks just like my RCBS 38-150-K, which they now call 38-150-SWC. I think they got calls
because it wasn't really a Keith design, too short of a nose. But, mine will essentially drop into
a 358477 mold, which has the smaller rounded lube groove. Either one is a really excellent
bullet, and since yours looks almost exactly like it, not surprising how well it works.
I think Lachmiller was bought out by RCBS, is it possible that this is a Lachmiller mold? I
really am not knowledgeable about identifying these older molds, and have no Lachmiller
or Cramer molds in stock. Is there some corporate connection between Cramer and RCBS?
Did anyone buy Cramer out when they stopped producing molds? I have no idea about the
history of Cramer - but I'll bet Glen can fill us in.
Seems like that basic design, with a thick base band, and one wide or two narrow lube grooves
satisfies the requirements for a good .38/.357 bullet.
By the way, GREAT pictures!
Bill
Bill, I read that SAECO bought out Cramer.
The reason I'm fairly certain mine is a Cramer, is I had a 3 cavity mould in .30 cal. that had Cramer ID on it.
That would was IDENTICAL to this one.
Ben
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Ben, I have that same mould. On mine, the tab of the sprue plate is stamped "CRAMER No. 26". The criss-cross venting on the top of the mould blocks, and that method of mounting the sprue plate (i.e. on the same screw that mounts the mould blocks to the handles) is a dead give away that it's a Cramer. As noted, this one is VERY similar to the RCBS 150 SWC.
Yes, Lachmiller did make some similar 3-cavity moulds, and they did make one for a similar (not identical) .357 SWC. the key differences include: the sprue plate hinges in the corner, not the middle; there is a notch in the sprue plate for the stop pin (a la the RCBS moulds today); the blocks (not the sprue plate) are stamped "LACHMILLER 358 150 S . W"; and the top of the mould blocks is only vented by a slight bevel on the top of the contacting faces. The design is very similar to the Cramer design, but not identical. The middle driving band is thicker, and the lube groove is narrower.
Here is a photo of the Lachmiller mould. I'll get some pictures of my Cramer mould in a little bit.
Yes, Lachmiller did make some similar 3-cavity moulds, and they did make one for a similar (not identical) .357 SWC. the key differences include: the sprue plate hinges in the corner, not the middle; there is a notch in the sprue plate for the stop pin (a la the RCBS moulds today); the blocks (not the sprue plate) are stamped "LACHMILLER 358 150 S . W"; and the top of the mould blocks is only vented by a slight bevel on the top of the contacting faces. The design is very similar to the Cramer design, but not identical. The middle driving band is thicker, and the lube groove is narrower.
Here is a photo of the Lachmiller mould. I'll get some pictures of my Cramer mould in a little bit.
I've got an old 4 cavity SWCPB 45 cal that I believe is a very old SAECO or even older Cramer. It casts WW alloy at 263 gr. I got it used with no sprue plate many years ago, it has the sprue plate attached with the handle screw as well. A similar SAECO mold sprue plate fits it to a "T" as well as SAECO handles. There is not a stamp or mark of any kind on this mold.
I have a much newer SAECO #446 200 gr RNFP PB that I bought new I believe around 03-05 or there about. It has exactly the same sprue plate mounting as the old Cramer/SAECO 45 cal mold. In fact the sprue plates are interchangeable. I just loaned this mold last week to Winelover for his 44 special.
.
I have a much newer SAECO #446 200 gr RNFP PB that I bought new I believe around 03-05 or there about. It has exactly the same sprue plate mounting as the old Cramer/SAECO 45 cal mold. In fact the sprue plates are interchangeable. I just loaned this mold last week to Winelover for his 44 special.
.
Yes, that pretty much nails the coffin shut on this mystery.
My mould is definitely a Cramer # 26.
However, I still wonder why my mould & sprue plate don't have any ID on them ?
I've wondered if someone " mangled " the original sprue plate with a steel hammer ( as many of us have seen Bubba do in the past ) and the owner of the mould or a subsequent owner replaced the sprue plate ? If so, that would explain why my sprue plate has no ID markings on it.
Many thanks Glen, your photos are great and they remove any doubts I might have on the issue here on my end of things. My holes in my sprue plate are also small like yours.
Ben
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Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Ben,
You ought to do somebody a favor and stamp or vibroengrave "Cramer #26" on the
sprue plate.
Glen,
Thanks for chiming in. I have always been impressed with your literally encyclopedic knowledge of molds and
especially the older molds from long gone makers. It is really great to have someone who knows to educate
us on these obscure molds.
That cross block venting on the top of the Cramers is something that I haven't seen before. They look to be
very nicely made molds, both the Cramer and Lachmiller - and yes, all three are near clones of the RCBS
38 150 K (38 150 SWC) and Lyman 358477 - early 150 gr versions, which are superb designs. The 477 is
just a bit different with the round bottomed lube groove, but "it don't hurt the runnin' of it any".
Bill
You ought to do somebody a favor and stamp or vibroengrave "Cramer #26" on the
sprue plate.
Glen,
Thanks for chiming in. I have always been impressed with your literally encyclopedic knowledge of molds and
especially the older molds from long gone makers. It is really great to have someone who knows to educate
us on these obscure molds.
That cross block venting on the top of the Cramers is something that I haven't seen before. They look to be
very nicely made molds, both the Cramer and Lachmiller - and yes, all three are near clones of the RCBS
38 150 K (38 150 SWC) and Lyman 358477 - early 150 gr versions, which are superb designs. The 477 is
just a bit different with the round bottomed lube groove, but "it don't hurt the runnin' of it any".
Bill