Advice: Lead alloy and bhn
- Thread starter burbank.jung
- Start date
5 thousandths? Did you mean a half of a thousands? .0005".
I quit looking for growth many years ago. Never found enough to warrant looking for it. Possible I suppose with some alloys but was a non-issue for me.
Also, the age softening of heat treated bullets. I found a couple of boxes of RCBS 35 caliber 200 gr. bullets stashed away under the bench. They were all properly labeled with date cast, alloy, heat treat method, BHN etc. They were 10 years old and labeled 30 BHN. After 10 years they did age soften and now tested at 26 BHN. 4 BHN in 10 years? Another non-issue.
Also, the age softening of heat treated bullets. I found a couple of boxes of RCBS 35 caliber 200 gr. bullets stashed away under the bench. They were all properly labeled with date cast, alloy, heat treat method, BHN etc. They were 10 years old and labeled 30 BHN. After 10 years they did age soften and now tested at 26 BHN. 4 BHN in 10 years? Another non-issue.
Dimner
Named Man
Sorry, I don't cast for those pistol calibers.... yet. Someday, when I can get primers and one of those new SA35s. I do use my straight range scrap for low velocity 30 cal loads. Low as in 1300fps or below. No gas checks. They work just fine. I guess I should mention my accuracy definition because each has their own standards.
For my low velocity loads under 1300fps, all I care about is 1 inch groups at 50 yards. The actual result is somewhere around 0.5 to 0.75" center to center when developing a load. At this velocity I don't think the alloy makes a difference within reason.
If you are looking for a harder blend, don't forget that you can waterdrop your bullets for a boost in hardness.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I don't suppose it really matters much until you have one of those loads that has to be "just so", and then it does. Half a thou ain't much, but others have reported more. Never seen it myself, just something to keep in the back of your mind. Just like age hardening and softening, for most people it probably doesn't matter. For the people obsessing over Bhn it probably has them pulling their hair out.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Just to add to the discussion, you change more than just the "hardness" when you WQ, and not all "lead" tempers.
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
I have had .001 growth in 2 batches made. Over a year.
The common denominator was pluming pipe and pewter with a 1 in 20 pewter(tin) content, to aid with my terrible casting skills at the time.
Did not matter in the 357 when I was sizing to .358. But made a big difference in the .380.
I casted and retested the stuff that was left to figure it out. Half of the growth (.0005) was in the first month. Never checked it beyond a month.
Now I just use it sweeten the range scrap, when I make up my 9 mm rounds. I shoot up a lot of 9.
As my firing pin is rather agressive in my build. I can use rifle primers when pistol primers are not easily are cheaply had. I have a crap load of pre current situation SRP, thanks to Ricks advice and a work bonus I got, a couple years ago.
I really need to get the revolver back out, now that I have some SPP again. I think it has been at least 6 months since I shot the 66.
Pardon the ramble
The common denominator was pluming pipe and pewter with a 1 in 20 pewter(tin) content, to aid with my terrible casting skills at the time.
Did not matter in the 357 when I was sizing to .358. But made a big difference in the .380.
I casted and retested the stuff that was left to figure it out. Half of the growth (.0005) was in the first month. Never checked it beyond a month.
Now I just use it sweeten the range scrap, when I make up my 9 mm rounds. I shoot up a lot of 9.
As my firing pin is rather agressive in my build. I can use rifle primers when pistol primers are not easily are cheaply had. I have a crap load of pre current situation SRP, thanks to Ricks advice and a work bonus I got, a couple years ago.
I really need to get the revolver back out, now that I have some SPP again. I think it has been at least 6 months since I shot the 66.
Pardon the ramble
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RBHarter
West Central AR
It seems like there was is an explanation here better said than I will .
The cooling process of a base quench results in heat migration to the sink , water in the pan in this case , which actually net cooling makes the nose in the air cool faster than the base in the water . Because the the heat sink draws all of the heat through the base . You actually end up with a softer base than nose . If I remember it correctly .
There are dozens of alloy manipulations to get what you need and they require some trade off and sometimes you have to just give part of it away all together to get what you want .
The cooling process of a base quench results in heat migration to the sink , water in the pan in this case , which actually net cooling makes the nose in the air cool faster than the base in the water . Because the the heat sink draws all of the heat through the base . You actually end up with a softer base than nose . If I remember it correctly .
There are dozens of alloy manipulations to get what you need and they require some trade off and sometimes you have to just give part of it away all together to get what you want .
L Ross
Well-Known Member
Ramble On my friend Led Zeppelin said so!
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Lots of variables in these ballistics equations, for certain.
Close 90% of my casting gets done with 92/6/2 alloy, AKA 1/2 lead and 1/2 Linotype. Once in a great while I use straight Lino, which casts wonderfully but is harder than woodpecker lips. A bit of 30/1 Lead/Tin gets the call in 38/55 and 45/70. That is also very nice to cast with.
Pure lead is the really interesting stuff lately--I've been running that in a number of revolver calibers, and it poses no issues to 900 FPS if sized to fit throats properly. Mind you, this is being run in twist rates of 1-16" to 1-20", no usage in the 1-10"/4 turns per meter pitches yet. I suspect some skidding would occur there, but that's only speculation at this point.
It does beg the question.......how much 'hardness' is required to function in some applications? I am talking to the "Low Node" folks here, especially.
Close 90% of my casting gets done with 92/6/2 alloy, AKA 1/2 lead and 1/2 Linotype. Once in a great while I use straight Lino, which casts wonderfully but is harder than woodpecker lips. A bit of 30/1 Lead/Tin gets the call in 38/55 and 45/70. That is also very nice to cast with.
Pure lead is the really interesting stuff lately--I've been running that in a number of revolver calibers, and it poses no issues to 900 FPS if sized to fit throats properly. Mind you, this is being run in twist rates of 1-16" to 1-20", no usage in the 1-10"/4 turns per meter pitches yet. I suspect some skidding would occur there, but that's only speculation at this point.
It does beg the question.......how much 'hardness' is required to function in some applications? I am talking to the "Low Node" folks here, especially.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Probably a lot less than most people think. An awful, awful lot of swaged bullets went down range and they weren't much more than plain lead.
L Ross
Well-Known Member
Boy oh boy, I never paid much attention to Brinnell and I have a bunch of linotype I was thinking I'd never use. Now you tell me I can mix it 50/50 with soft lead and make 92/6/2? Well Halleluja, now I can start working on reducing the lino inventory. Thanks.
fiver
Well-Known Member
that's how the big boys get their teracorp magnum alloy.
they call the foundry and order it by name [or call it hardball] the foundry dude wanders out and throws some printers lead and some actual lead ingots in the big pot and pours it back out into the ingot shape the dude on the other end of the line wants.
hey Ross you can cut that 2-6 alloy in half with pure lead again and only lose 3 BHN points...... jus sayin for those following along at home.
that's what i used to do when i was sellin bullets to people as a full time job with part time pay.
anyway antimonial growth doesn't show up till you try to use the same ammo you used last year on the opening morning of this years deer hunt.
they call the foundry and order it by name [or call it hardball] the foundry dude wanders out and throws some printers lead and some actual lead ingots in the big pot and pours it back out into the ingot shape the dude on the other end of the line wants.
hey Ross you can cut that 2-6 alloy in half with pure lead again and only lose 3 BHN points...... jus sayin for those following along at home.
that's what i used to do when i was sellin bullets to people as a full time job with part time pay.
anyway antimonial growth doesn't show up till you try to use the same ammo you used last year on the opening morning of this years deer hunt.
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
My most used virgin alloy is three parts pure to one part lino..............no tin added. After three weeks, BHN is 14-15 as measured on a LBT tester. My recovered bullet alloy, from the backyard range, tests about the same. Everything has been deposited in that sand berm............. ranging from commercial hardcast to pure, and everything in between.
L Ross
Well-Known Member
Of the thous, oh er ah, of the small supply of plumbous metals I have securely locked away to protect society at large, the shortest supply is my stash of pure. In days gone by when we shot round balls in Brown Besses and Fusil de Chasses, and Officer's Model Muskets I freely gave away lots of that gummy old stuff that showed purple and gold colors on top of the Dutch ovens. Heck we even made up swivel gun ball, I mean heck, it was free or cheap right?
L Ross
Well-Known Member
Purchase as in buy, like with cash money, from a vendor or business? Why sir, I do declare, you done gave me the vapors.
