Ar15 and cast
- Thread starter Mainiac
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RBHarter
West Central AR
223 yes it will, BUT , not with the popular 1-7/8/9" twists . In the A2 style 1-8 copper enhanced 20 BHN WQWW + tamper seals or range metal quit making anything resembling groups under 2000 fps . A 1-12 222 with the same 62 gr NOE ran right through 2600 keeping 100 yd groups inside the 1" grids .
The 300 should be right at home with 180+ gr bullets barrel quality and gas tube fouling vary greatly. The ARP 5R I shoot has virtually no even gas suspended lead passed into the action in a 6.8SPCII with a 130 at 2250 .
The Omni Hybrid 223 shows a little grey sludge which I suspect is as much antimony in gas suspension as lead .
Another from an outfit that was building and kitting on seconds with Wilson or Mossberg barrels , again seconds maybe even rejects showed a lot of grey and metallic sludge in the action .
The 300 should be right at home with 180+ gr bullets barrel quality and gas tube fouling vary greatly. The ARP 5R I shoot has virtually no even gas suspended lead passed into the action in a 6.8SPCII with a 130 at 2250 .
The Omni Hybrid 223 shows a little grey sludge which I suspect is as much antimony in gas suspension as lead .
Another from an outfit that was building and kitting on seconds with Wilson or Mossberg barrels , again seconds maybe even rejects showed a lot of grey and metallic sludge in the action .
Thumbcocker
Active Member
Standard Ar 15 will run with cast at around 2000 fps. I can't speak to 2400 fps. I was using lubed cast boolits that were subsequently tumbled in thinned liquid lube with 4895 powder.
Biggest PITA is seating those teeny gas checks. Accuracy was around 2.5" with mixed brass. I am sure this could have been tightened up some but it was good enough to stop rogue clay pigeons and charging soda cans so we were happy.
If your rifle has a flash hider it will accumulate some lead/antimony wash. We did not have problems with barrel leading and the bolt stayed open after the last shot.
Biggest PITA is seating those teeny gas checks. Accuracy was around 2.5" with mixed brass. I am sure this could have been tightened up some but it was good enough to stop rogue clay pigeons and charging soda cans so we were happy.
If your rifle has a flash hider it will accumulate some lead/antimony wash. We did not have problems with barrel leading and the bolt stayed open after the last shot.
RBHarter
West Central AR
I forgot about the FH . It should be noted that some are worse than others. The Wilson/Mossy barrel actually crashed accuracy as it fouled the crown enough to screw up the release . I had a fellow volunteer his service and cut the baffel out and extend the 1/2-20 threads which cured the fouling trap . Probably ruined the A2 bird cage functionally.
The 5/8 18 (I think) on the ARP has a 32 cal hole in the step and a much narrower gap on the heavy barrel than the A2 style and doesn't seem to have the issue with 500 or so down range .
The 5/8 18 (I think) on the ARP has a 32 cal hole in the step and a much narrower gap on the heavy barrel than the A2 style and doesn't seem to have the issue with 500 or so down range .
Josh
Well-Known Member
I've found that the 5.56 much prefers heavier bullets, I designed a 75 gr bullet that was the berries for making a 223 in an AR behave exactly like you'd want. MiHec also has a 70ish gr bullet that does very well.
The big thing with 223 is you have to cull ruthlessly, ANY distortion, wrinkle or bad fillout needs culled. Weight sort your bullets for best accuracy. Longer barrels also seem to work better, I'd go 18 or 20" over the more standard 16".
Bore condition seems to be a huge factor in cast accuracy. The cheaper manufacturers need about 1,000 jacketed rounds burned through them before they smooth out. My suggestion on the cheaper end is a Stag Arms, they have lifetime barrel life warrantees, you may not ever shoot that much, but for the price they're hard to beat.
All in all the 223/5.56 is a fun cartridge to get running cast in. If I were to go crazy and build a dedicated AR for cast shooting, I'd get a 222 Remington with a 1-10 twist and it would look like the M16A1 or 2. Probably the A1 as it was chambered in 222 very early in testing. Either way, it's a fun endeavor, worthy if your time if you're bored and need a nice head scratcher every once in a while.
The big thing with 223 is you have to cull ruthlessly, ANY distortion, wrinkle or bad fillout needs culled. Weight sort your bullets for best accuracy. Longer barrels also seem to work better, I'd go 18 or 20" over the more standard 16".
Bore condition seems to be a huge factor in cast accuracy. The cheaper manufacturers need about 1,000 jacketed rounds burned through them before they smooth out. My suggestion on the cheaper end is a Stag Arms, they have lifetime barrel life warrantees, you may not ever shoot that much, but for the price they're hard to beat.
All in all the 223/5.56 is a fun cartridge to get running cast in. If I were to go crazy and build a dedicated AR for cast shooting, I'd get a 222 Remington with a 1-10 twist and it would look like the M16A1 or 2. Probably the A1 as it was chambered in 222 very early in testing. Either way, it's a fun endeavor, worthy if your time if you're bored and need a nice head scratcher every once in a while.
2000 and the bolt stayed open,thanks,thats what i was wondering.
Now i have to look up 222 in an ar,,,never thought about that!!
I have a herd of 222 around here!
8 and 9 twist with carbine gas work fine with RCBS 22-55 or NOE 225-70s over Reloader 7, or Benchmark. Copper enriched alloy helps, powder coating can help, but expect to size 226-.227" for a 556 chamber.
300 Blackout works excellently with cast despite the quick twist and chamber pressure. 140gr RCBS 7.62-130-SPL, Lee 312-155s or TL312-160s can be run full throttle, but expect to size .310"-.311".
Tomme boy
Well-Known Member
I run my 1-8tw rifles to 2500 wit the MP 65gr no problem. Gas checked and powder coated. Imr4198, rl7,rl10x. Also ran fine in a 11.5" 1-7tw but at 2000fps with the same loads because of the shorter barrel. Same load in my savage bolt gun 1-9tw goes 2700+.
They all shoot better than factory ball ammo. That was what I was trying to do to make it cheaper to shoot. I can bust clay pigeons out to 400 yds so I achieved what I wanted to do.
They all shoot better than factory ball ammo. That was what I was trying to do to make it cheaper to shoot. I can bust clay pigeons out to 400 yds so I achieved what I wanted to do.
fiver
Well-Known Member
the case isn't the problem your looking at the difference in their throats.
i run the RCBS up near 2800 fps with good accuracy on par with jacketed [1-1/4"s is pretty much my average group size in a plain jane 1-9 AR] with full functioning [never tried going slow] plain naked bullets and some investment in time and effort will get you there.
don't have a 300 BO AR with the slower 8 twist, both my bolt guns have 7's.
the only other 300 throat i measured was in an AR, they were all different and wouldn't share bullets,,, plus some brands of cases with other bullets wouldn't chamber because of neck diameter.
i run the RCBS up near 2800 fps with good accuracy on par with jacketed [1-1/4"s is pretty much my average group size in a plain jane 1-9 AR] with full functioning [never tried going slow] plain naked bullets and some investment in time and effort will get you there.
don't have a 300 BO AR with the slower 8 twist, both my bolt guns have 7's.
the only other 300 throat i measured was in an AR, they were all different and wouldn't share bullets,,, plus some brands of cases with other bullets wouldn't chamber because of neck diameter.
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Ran 61 grain Elvis in my 223 Wylde AR. Plain base powder coated .Using H335.
Got about 2"groups before I gave it up.
Could not tell you the exact FPS.
It worked best with the 18 inch barrel.
With. 16 inch I was only getting 3 to 4 inch groups. Have a thread on it here.
Traded over to 450 bushmaster for my AR 15, way easier to load.
And suits my needs. Cycles just fine, with pretty much any light 45/70 type, cast bullet. Get 1 MOA with my loads,.
Got about 2"groups before I gave it up.
Could not tell you the exact FPS.
It worked best with the 18 inch barrel.
With. 16 inch I was only getting 3 to 4 inch groups. Have a thread on it here.
Traded over to 450 bushmaster for my AR 15, way easier to load.
And suits my needs. Cycles just fine, with pretty much any light 45/70 type, cast bullet. Get 1 MOA with my loads,.
If you you have the AR bug and want to shot cast find a slower twist barrel like 1:10-7.62x39, 1:12 or 1:14 in .223, or best of all a 300 Ham'r with 1:15.
Yes, the 300 BO works okay with the RCBS 7.62-130-SPL, but most 300 BO barrels are a faster twist.
Gas check powder coat works best.
300 BO dedicated mags work best for 300 BO and 300 Ham'r.
NOE 311-152-SP and NOE 309-146-SP are also good bullets.
Any of these is just a whole lotta FUN!
Yes, the 300 BO works okay with the RCBS 7.62-130-SPL, but most 300 BO barrels are a faster twist.
Gas check powder coat works best.
300 BO dedicated mags work best for 300 BO and 300 Ham'r.
NOE 311-152-SP and NOE 309-146-SP are also good bullets.
Any of these is just a whole lotta FUN!
358156 hp
At large, whereabouts unknown.
I found Eds advice worked really well for me: https://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/articles/Cast In an AR.htm
Thanks,,really hard for me to know what i want.
I have avoided these plastic rattle traps all my life,,now im studying.14 twist 222,,would be sweet,im sure!!!
Sundog,,i remember you on the other site,,15-18years ago,,when i had alot of newbie questions.
You and felix,was a great help!!