Badly Bubbaed Grail Mold

KeithB

Resident Half Fast Machinist
I have wanted to own Lyman (preferably) molds in a round nose style for every centerfire revolver I own. It wasn't much trouble to get a four cavity 358311 for my .38s and .357s since they are still in production and available both new and used. The same for a four cavity 452374 for my .45ACP/AR M625. That left a 429383 for a 246 gr round nose for my .44 Specials and Magnums, and a 410426 for .41 magnum.

A member here recently sold me a four cavity 429383 that is in excellent shape, I'm looking forward to using it. That mold makes a bullet that duplicates the traditional factory bullet/load for the .44 Special. I have to believe that this mold was reasonably popular at one time, enough so that it was offered in four cavity version. I have seen several one and two cavity molds on eBay over the years but I wanted a four and finally got one. I have a six cavity Lee that makes the same weight/style bullet but I've wanted the Lyman version also.

My last Grail mold I've been searching for is a 410426 which was originally designed for the .401 WInchester Self Loader rifle. While this firearm was popular for a while it has long been out of production and the cartridge is obsolete. I doubt (w/o any real info to back up my opinion) that Lyman/Ideal didn't make as many of these molds as they did the -383s and similar.

To find one at all is great, to find one in four cavity - well wow! A member here saw my post and sent me a "project" mold to examine. It has been badly Bubbaed but after careful inspection the cavities - 3 out of 4 - look good and the mold itself while kind of ugly has flat faces and seems to close w/o seeing light between the halves. The sprue stop pin had fallen out so Bubba brazed in a short threaded stud. And melted the edge of the mold! The alignment pins have been replaced (Ideal/Lyman never used pins like that to my knowledge) and the two on one end are ok but the one on the female side on the other end has fallen out again and the hole has upset into the side of one of the cavities. I am going to try and peen that cavity to see if I can upset the material back where it should be but if I'm not successful I'll just use it as a three cavity. I need to make a new sprue plate anyway so if it won't make a good bullet I'll just put three holes in the sprue plate and lock that cavity out.

I've heard that these molds run small for .41 Magnum, but several Lyman handbooks list it as a .41 mag mold and if it is undersize I can always (a) lap it out, (b) beagle it, or (C) powder coat the bullets.

My Grail 410426 project mold
410426-8.jpg

All the cavities on one side are good, 3 of 4 on the other side are fine also.
410426-1.jpg

Bubba's sprue plate stop pin and melted edge of mold from brazing!
410426-3.jpg]

This cavity has had some material displaced into the nose from the female alignment pin hole.
410426-5.jpg
 

todd

Well-Known Member
just a little bit of filing and sanding will make the nose right as rain says Bubba..
 

KeithB

Resident Half Fast Machinist
I should have pointed this out - the member who sold me this mold sent me pictures and accurately described the mold condition and gave me a chance to examine it. He was totally honest and I knew what I was getting. I'd buy again from him.
 

richhodg66

Well-Known Member
Just a thought. Since one cavity is bad, and this will likely drop smaller than optimum for .41 Magnum, perhaps lapping that one cavity to drop a bigger bullet might be the thing to do.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Wow...

I have bought a few bad ones and SO FAR have been able ta bring them back. Makes for a good winter project!! Maybe have it working by sweat shirt weather when ya can cast outside again!!

CW
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Keith, you can do this one up just fine. To bad some idiot tried to use it with Lee handles that are too small and don't fill the slots.
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
I would try to knock that cavity back here it needs to be. You would have to use a backer to make each hit a dead blow with no bounce. That is how you straighten cast aluminum. Being cast steel it might act the same way.
 

KeithB

Resident Half Fast Machinist
This bullet looks a whole lot like a 429383 and weighs 240 grains, likely the heaviest bullet I will ever shoot out of my M57. Most .41 stuff tops out at about 210 - 220 grains. I do have an obsolete Lee 240 gr SWC in .41 but haven't shot many of them and don't remember it being particularly accurate.
 

nanuk

Member
Good luck

I hope you update us when you are midway through the rehab, and then again when you are finished

I had several Ideal old moulds that were in rough shape. all single cavity.
ended up selling them to a collector. He was happy to get them, I was happy to get rid of them
 

Rally

NC Minnesota
If it were mine it would be dedicated to paper weight. I wouldn’t want to put that much time into a rn bullet.
 

KeithB

Resident Half Fast Machinist
From your point of view as a trapper and hunter that is perfectly understandable. A lot better designs for that.

I can’t really explain my quirkiness about round nose cast bullets in non-magnum handgun calibers. Even in .41 magnum I load to .44 special power levels. Somehow a round nose bullet in .38 special looks right to me, in .357 it looks wrong. Same w .44 special/magnum, and of course.45 ACP/AR loads are not magnum at any level.

Paper and soda cans are my targets and my RNs kill them just fine.
 

nanuk

Member
Paper and soda cans are my targets and my RNs kill them just fine.

I have always understood that flat noses penetrate better than round nose. Straighter and deeper.
Are you concerned about penetration and exit wounds on paper and soda cans?
 
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