CDR ??
- Thread starter Michael
- Start date
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Exalted titles and bloviated language--a sign of the times. Euphemisms fit right in with that lot.
I have gas guns and bolt guns in 223 and 308, and have been behind all of those in tense situations at work. In the mid1980s the wife of one of our Eagle Mountain resident deputies got set upon by locals that knew her hubby had to transport a prisoner to Blythe Jail and was out of pocket for close to 3 hours. As these low-lifes approached close to the residence she warned them away, saying she would shoot. The vermin got a good laugh out of that, and announced their intention to enter and have their way with her and the couple's property. There were 8-10 assailants.
Mistake.
An M1A is a great get-off-me device. 140 rounds and not quite an hour later our lady remained unhurt and her erstwhile assailants were impressed and educated. The few that tried doors or showed themselves at windows got a 150 grain Sierra softpoint sent close by. The cavalry arrived--the victim ID'ed several of the assailants--and the bad guys didn't pass go and didn't collect 200 dollars.
This incident helped to seal the fate of Eagle Mountain, a company town where the mine and railroad workers lived that worked the iron mine that fed Kaiser Steel in Fontana. Within a short time the operation ceased--the mill closed (it was the largest employer in San Bernardino County at that time)--the mine closed--the town of Eagle Mountain was depopulated via forced evictions--and to this day a very stern group of security folk keep a very watchful eye on the mine and town. Those boys and girls DO NOT PLAY NICE.
Almost 40 years later the deputy's wife is alive. In the wake of that scary event she was beset with profound agoraphobia and PTSD. Her husband and she divorced, and she has since re-married. I know all three of these folks quite well, and we remain close.
The closure of Kaiser Mine and Kaiser Steel wreaked havoc on the economy of inland southern California. The effects of these closures still reverberate today; several of my classmates that I met with at my 50 year reunion on 6/10 were sons and daughters of Kaiser Steel employees, and a few actually worked at the mill after high school. Those jobs were gone 7-10 years later--all of them.
The assault on the deputy's home and wife was not the cause of the shutdown, per se--but was a definite symptom of an industry in its death throes and the desperation of the workers uncertain of employment and future. The flower of human nature can be a skunk cabbage at times.
All this above is to illustrate that a gas-operated RIFLE has no peer as a defensive tool. There had been a few incoming rounds to the victim residence, but those got dissuaded mui pronto by larger & heavier angry hornets in 30 caliber going outbound. One of those alibi rounds going across a bad guy's bow is most disincentivizing.
ANY party that says self-loading rifles have no place in citizen hands is full of condensed apple pie, and should be dosed heavily with Metamucil to clear the problem.
I have gas guns and bolt guns in 223 and 308, and have been behind all of those in tense situations at work. In the mid1980s the wife of one of our Eagle Mountain resident deputies got set upon by locals that knew her hubby had to transport a prisoner to Blythe Jail and was out of pocket for close to 3 hours. As these low-lifes approached close to the residence she warned them away, saying she would shoot. The vermin got a good laugh out of that, and announced their intention to enter and have their way with her and the couple's property. There were 8-10 assailants.
Mistake.
An M1A is a great get-off-me device. 140 rounds and not quite an hour later our lady remained unhurt and her erstwhile assailants were impressed and educated. The few that tried doors or showed themselves at windows got a 150 grain Sierra softpoint sent close by. The cavalry arrived--the victim ID'ed several of the assailants--and the bad guys didn't pass go and didn't collect 200 dollars.
This incident helped to seal the fate of Eagle Mountain, a company town where the mine and railroad workers lived that worked the iron mine that fed Kaiser Steel in Fontana. Within a short time the operation ceased--the mill closed (it was the largest employer in San Bernardino County at that time)--the mine closed--the town of Eagle Mountain was depopulated via forced evictions--and to this day a very stern group of security folk keep a very watchful eye on the mine and town. Those boys and girls DO NOT PLAY NICE.
Almost 40 years later the deputy's wife is alive. In the wake of that scary event she was beset with profound agoraphobia and PTSD. Her husband and she divorced, and she has since re-married. I know all three of these folks quite well, and we remain close.
The closure of Kaiser Mine and Kaiser Steel wreaked havoc on the economy of inland southern California. The effects of these closures still reverberate today; several of my classmates that I met with at my 50 year reunion on 6/10 were sons and daughters of Kaiser Steel employees, and a few actually worked at the mill after high school. Those jobs were gone 7-10 years later--all of them.
The assault on the deputy's home and wife was not the cause of the shutdown, per se--but was a definite symptom of an industry in its death throes and the desperation of the workers uncertain of employment and future. The flower of human nature can be a skunk cabbage at times.
All this above is to illustrate that a gas-operated RIFLE has no peer as a defensive tool. There had been a few incoming rounds to the victim residence, but those got dissuaded mui pronto by larger & heavier angry hornets in 30 caliber going outbound. One of those alibi rounds going across a bad guy's bow is most disincentivizing.
ANY party that says self-loading rifles have no place in citizen hands is full of condensed apple pie, and should be dosed heavily with Metamucil to clear the problem.
462
California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
It may be that I should have some sort of AR. That my drummer has always been off in the weeds by himself, the Garand will have to suffice.
Last week my son couldn't resist the AR Sirens, and a few months ago he succumbed to the ones that were singing praises of the 9 mm. He's relatively new to handguns, so I've excused the 9 mm S&W Shield. I did, though, tell him my philosophy of the bigger the hole the better.
I need to drop another hint -- much stronger than the last one, apparently -- about how much I'd like to relieve him of the Colt Mustang that he inherited from his late father-in-law.
Last week my son couldn't resist the AR Sirens, and a few months ago he succumbed to the ones that were singing praises of the 9 mm. He's relatively new to handguns, so I've excused the 9 mm S&W Shield. I did, though, tell him my philosophy of the bigger the hole the better.
I need to drop another hint -- much stronger than the last one, apparently -- about how much I'd like to relieve him of the Colt Mustang that he inherited from his late father-in-law.
Ian
Notorious member
Allen: CDR indeed!
A friend at work calls a certain sort of character "meal team sixs" or "Cosplaytriots". Those who haven't a clue what it is like to experience war or be attacked for realsies but fantasize about having a chance to try and be some sort of hero. Those who know what it's really like don't wish it on anyone.
A friend at work calls a certain sort of character "meal team sixs" or "Cosplaytriots". Those who haven't a clue what it is like to experience war or be attacked for realsies but fantasize about having a chance to try and be some sort of hero. Those who know what it's really like don't wish it on anyone.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I keep looking at AR's and they are actually about the least expensive type of repeating rifles in the local shops...which strikes me a really odd. Of course now NYS says I have to have an amendment to my pistol permit to purchase a new semi-auto anything, but the ones I already have are okey-dokey. No, it doesn't make any sense. Anyhoo, every time I pick up an AR type I just don't get any "buy me" vibes. Now, an M1A or something cool like that is something else, and many times more expensive. Guess the SKS and M1 Carbines will have to appease me.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Michael--
There is nothing wrong with a 9 x 19 fed Euro-level loads, usually rated '+P' by American makers. The M9 cartridges are so loaded, 1250 FPS from the 4.9" barrel of the M9/Beretta M-92SB-F pistols. Those Colt Mustangs are NICE, just aim at the eye socket/Brain Housing Group with its projectiles. I vote FMJ/TC in 380 ACP, if such critters exist. A casting of same weight and form would serve nicely.
Ian--
I will be stealing and using your friend's terms for the mall ninjas and faux Rambo types. I have never seen warfare, but have been shot at enough to know that is sucks canal water. Being hit by gunfire REALLY SUCKS and pisses you off to a fare-thee-well. By virtue of that 1981 entertainment my sense of smell is entirely gone and sense of taste is about 20% of normal. I can be strident and a bit didactic when discussing or instructing subjects related to staying alive when things turn left and go sideways--sorry about that. I'll reserve comment about the loudmouths that favor the onset of a civil war. They are all beneath contempt. In times like these the lack of men in society with first-hand experience of war and killing and dying is obvious. The living memory of that carnage and destruction is critical to the preservation of peace.
Bret--
The AR-series rifles came relatively late in my hobby career--about 1987, at the same time my shop went in the direction of autopistols. I was not in the Armed Forces. I did have Ruger Mini-14s, though--since 1978. I still do. In response to the Norco Bank Robbery/Shoot-out in May 1980, it became politically-expedient to form SWAT teams soon after this debacle. By this time I had almost 3 years hands-on with the Ruger rifles, and loved the things. I still do--my example will reliably shoot into 1.5" to 1.7" groups using good bullets at 100 yards--Sierra Matchkings of 52, 53, and 69 grain weights. The 60 grain HP does well too.
Former GIs and Marines had no end of trouble with magazine manipulation and the Mini-14. I didn't, maybe because I wasn't conditioned to the AR-series straight (and simpler) straight-line seating.
I own both systems--I have both systems--I like both systems. 6 of one, a half-dozen of the other. After little dust-ups like Norco, Eagle Mountain, North Hollywood, Route 91/Las Vegas, and a score of similar atrocities in our history perped by nutbars and yo-yo mechanics--it is patently insane to not own and know the use of firearms. Better to have and not need than the other way around. I know I'm preaching to the converted.
There is nothing wrong with a 9 x 19 fed Euro-level loads, usually rated '+P' by American makers. The M9 cartridges are so loaded, 1250 FPS from the 4.9" barrel of the M9/Beretta M-92SB-F pistols. Those Colt Mustangs are NICE, just aim at the eye socket/Brain Housing Group with its projectiles. I vote FMJ/TC in 380 ACP, if such critters exist. A casting of same weight and form would serve nicely.
Ian--
I will be stealing and using your friend's terms for the mall ninjas and faux Rambo types. I have never seen warfare, but have been shot at enough to know that is sucks canal water. Being hit by gunfire REALLY SUCKS and pisses you off to a fare-thee-well. By virtue of that 1981 entertainment my sense of smell is entirely gone and sense of taste is about 20% of normal. I can be strident and a bit didactic when discussing or instructing subjects related to staying alive when things turn left and go sideways--sorry about that. I'll reserve comment about the loudmouths that favor the onset of a civil war. They are all beneath contempt. In times like these the lack of men in society with first-hand experience of war and killing and dying is obvious. The living memory of that carnage and destruction is critical to the preservation of peace.
Bret--
The AR-series rifles came relatively late in my hobby career--about 1987, at the same time my shop went in the direction of autopistols. I was not in the Armed Forces. I did have Ruger Mini-14s, though--since 1978. I still do. In response to the Norco Bank Robbery/Shoot-out in May 1980, it became politically-expedient to form SWAT teams soon after this debacle. By this time I had almost 3 years hands-on with the Ruger rifles, and loved the things. I still do--my example will reliably shoot into 1.5" to 1.7" groups using good bullets at 100 yards--Sierra Matchkings of 52, 53, and 69 grain weights. The 60 grain HP does well too.
Former GIs and Marines had no end of trouble with magazine manipulation and the Mini-14. I didn't, maybe because I wasn't conditioned to the AR-series straight (and simpler) straight-line seating.
I own both systems--I have both systems--I like both systems. 6 of one, a half-dozen of the other. After little dust-ups like Norco, Eagle Mountain, North Hollywood, Route 91/Las Vegas, and a score of similar atrocities in our history perped by nutbars and yo-yo mechanics--it is patently insane to not own and know the use of firearms. Better to have and not need than the other way around. I know I'm preaching to the converted.
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Rick H
Well-Known Member
While trained by the Army with a M-16A1 during the very early 70's I didn't own a AR style rifle until after I retired from the PD. I did have a Ruger Mini (still do) but was never very impressed with its accuracy. A coworker and hunting partner of mine convinced me of the superiority of his Colt Hbar to my bolt action Savage11L as a coyote calling rifle. I now own two AR's both in 5.56/223R. Both have been reliable and accurate (sub 2 moa). Coyotes are in trouble inside of 300 yds. Either of them, in the hands of someone who knows how to use them, are formidable defensive weapons.
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462
California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
I've read many of your posts, Allen, regarding European-level 9 mm loadings and don't doubt what you've written, but I follow my drummer and not the crowd.
Yep, the Mustang is nice. Very nice. Its caliber doesn't start with a 4, however its defensive loadings have about reached the level of the crowd's 9 mm. My drummer says it'd work as backup to my .40 S&W Glock 27, or a .45 ACP if I could find a sub-compact dimensioned the same as the Glock.
Speaking of the 27, last week's Monday I put 80 rounds of an Arsenal 180-grain cast bullet that were painted some shade of nice red by my son-in-law and 5.5-grains of WSF through it. Fifty practice at the range and 30 for carry qualifications. I've another 130 loaded, but it was so much short distance fun I want to cast more and have them painted.
RBHarter
West Central AR
Long ago as a young lad my Dad said to me "your too slow to blind them and your strength is all the wrong direction. If you're going to scrap or gonna be in one you're going to have to knock them down hard enough to make them stop fighting or take their breath away so they can't fight " . I feel the same way about arms in general. If you can't poke a hole in it then break a bunch of ribs , if ya can't breathe ya can't fight . Sure a 1200 fps 120 is nice and a 1200 fps 158 is better but a 230-250 at 900 fps has a huge dwell time the same ME and no sonic boom . I shot in a closed space once it's possible my hearing was compromised by that event .
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fiver
Well-Known Member
ahh that's why you hung out with me and Littlegirl at the NVCB shoot.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
No, sir--back then the nose functioned well and the taste buds were first-rate. When I got shot the neuro docs said that sooner or later smell would crap out and taste would follow its lead. I got about 35 years of both as a bonus. It began to fade about 2017 and was gone within a year. I should have ducked faster.
fiver
Well-Known Member
the sense of smell is a huuuge part of tasting things.
mine got wiped along about the third broken nose which had the doctor cramming straws and junk up there trying to make it work again.
the bonus is it's now selective in what it works on.
i can enter a coffee shop and tell if they use good coffee or if it has filler in the mix, i can also tell you the instant bread is properly cooked without having to look.
other stuff goes right on past me till i see other people pretty much gagging.
mine got wiped along about the third broken nose which had the doctor cramming straws and junk up there trying to make it work again.
the bonus is it's now selective in what it works on.
i can enter a coffee shop and tell if they use good coffee or if it has filler in the mix, i can also tell you the instant bread is properly cooked without having to look.
other stuff goes right on past me till i see other people pretty much gagging.