Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
/\ Very observant. /\
It isn’t necessary to hate one cartridge in order to favor another, but some folks feel a need to tear down anything that isn’t lifted up.
CW's favorite handgun
- Thread starter Tomme boy
- Start date
It isn’t necessary to hate one cartridge in order to favor another, but some folks feel a need to tear down anything that isn’t lifted up.
And who did that in this thread? Are we judging others by one self?
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
I'm am speaking to the general dislike of the 9mm that is often expressed.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Come on, you can see my point. You say you won't use a particular caliber because of one video, almost certainly set up to give the desired results, you saw years back that applies to clothing not worn in your area most of the time and with no evidence to suggest bad guys always bundle up in the first place.
Whatever man.
Tis Bret that missed the point. Completely. It's the power of the caliber I don't like, has nothing to do with how bad guy's dress. Or don't.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
And how much real world difference is there between a 380 and a 9 or 38? Yeah, if you use the wimpiest 380 load you can find the 9's and 38's look great. But that 38 can make the 9 look sad if you muscle it up. And if you're gonna muscle it up then use a 357 or 10MM! Use a decent 380 load and it's a lot better than you'd think. I've killed a couple 3 coyotes with a 380 and 90 gr cast FN loaded fairly warm. Penetration was pretty good for such a wimpy little cartridge. I wouldn't want to stand down range and have to catch any of them!!! Same thing goes for the 32 Auto or some of the lower powered 9mm's. Where do you draw the line? I admit, I gave up on the 25ACP, despite absolutely loving the Berreta I had, because it just didn't have the oomph to cause a racoon to even stagger a little. It's just that the line for each of us seems to be a giant grey area that doesn't always make sense to someone else. And it doesn't have to! To each their own.
Reminds me of the guys that would never use something so old fashioned as a 35 Remington but they fawn over the 360 Buckmasters or whatever that round is. It makes sense to them, but not to me!
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
As it happens, I have a 38 S+W and a Lyman mould designed for the "Super Police" 38/200 load. Not the British 38/200 with the pointy bullet either, the blunt nosed one! The gun is a Smith "Perfected Model" and I would have zero qualms about sticking that one in my pocket!Once the .38/200 load was developed, none of these other cartridges were needed.
Can't begin to imagine why your so upset over me not liking the 380. Don't have one, never had one, never will have one. End of story. Since your so fond of them have it but it's a total waste of time to try and dissuade me.
Tomme boy
Well-Known Member
I have been carrying a 380 for almost 3 years now. I know its limitations. But I also feel it fits for what I want. I started with the Ruger LCP. Now I am carrying the Ruger Security 380. It fits my hand and accurate enough for a short range encounter if ever needed. It holds the same # of rounds as my G19 but feels like it is half the weight of the G19. And fits in my hand WAY better.
When I do end up getting this 9mm, it is going to be a range gun. I will probably never carry it. I just want it for an accurate play toy. And like I said earlier, I am 9mm heavy as to components and molds. I have an almost unlimited supply of brass for it.
When I do end up getting this 9mm, it is going to be a range gun. I will probably never carry it. I just want it for an accurate play toy. And like I said earlier, I am 9mm heavy as to components and molds. I have an almost unlimited supply of brass for it.
TXTad
Active Member
Same. Much better than no gun! I certainly wouldn't want to catch a 200 gr bullet even at a paltry 620 fps.
I'd kind of like to load and shoot some of those, but I have no .38 S&W and every one that I've ever seen has been worn out beyond anything I want to deal with.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
I have four 38 S&Ws in the safe, two of which were specifically designed to run the 38/200 British loadings. Both the NOE #169A and the Lyman #358430 Heavy do tumble in animated targets at 600-700 FPS impact velocities--50%-60% of the time.
The Russian using services still issue the 9mm Makarov, but it is alleged by its users that layered clothing can and does stop complete penetration. I imagine blunt trauma is still pretty memorable. To overcome this obstacle the Ivans have come up with a 5.45 x 18 pistol round--its .217" spitzer bullet runs 1030 FPS and penetrates layered clothing. Russia does weird things--e.g., the Nagant gas-seal revolver. The Makarov runs its 95 grainer at 1100 FPS, the 380 at 900 with decent Euro ammo. You pays yer money and takes yer chances--as always.
The Russian using services still issue the 9mm Makarov, but it is alleged by its users that layered clothing can and does stop complete penetration. I imagine blunt trauma is still pretty memorable. To overcome this obstacle the Ivans have come up with a 5.45 x 18 pistol round--its .217" spitzer bullet runs 1030 FPS and penetrates layered clothing. Russia does weird things--e.g., the Nagant gas-seal revolver. The Makarov runs its 95 grainer at 1100 FPS, the 380 at 900 with decent Euro ammo. You pays yer money and takes yer chances--as always.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
I sold off my last 38 a short time back. I broke my own rule about not selling things I would not be able to replace. My '50's S&W 14.
Before that a few others was sold too. I was not shooting a revolver in competition.
Before that a few others was sold too. I was not shooting a revolver in competition.
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
All of my 38's are 1.78" J-frames. Never owned any with a longer barrel. Couldn't see the point, when 357's will chamber 38 Special. Never inherited any guns so my purchasing decisions were based on versatility. Same reason, DA is preferred over SA. Only once, did I purchase a used gun, and that was fairly recently, from a member, here.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I'm not upset, it's just that the reasoning you presented was way out in left field which seemed odd for you. As I said, to each their own!
Can't begin to imagine why your so upset over me not liking the 380. Don't have one, never had one, never will have one. End of story. Since your so fond of them have it but it's a total waste of time to try and dissuade me.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I sometimes wonder is there are people out there that think Joe Badguy sits around in the evenings perusing ballistics charts so when presented with a target that will fight back he can identify the gun and consider whether the armed citizen is carrying something that will actually endanger him! Pretty sure, based on real life experience, that J. Badguy isn't going to be able to tell the difference between the muzzle end of a 380 or 9mm, much less will he consult the charts to see if he picked the wrong victim. The chances of any of us actually engaging in a real shoot out are pretty slim. Carry what you want, but I wouldn't be too disparaging of what someone else chooses.
Out in left field? Not to me, as I said, bloody holes good, bruised and pissed off bad.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Both the Soviets and the Chinese have a long history of reverse engineering or even downright copying other people’s work. The influence of the Walther PP in the Makarov is indisputable, although the Russians did manage to simplify the PP design. I don’t know this, but I suspect the Soviets set a size and weight limit for the Makarov slide and then set out to find the maximum power cartridge that would function in a simple blowback system within those limitations. And in line with classic Soviet dogma, the dimensions for that cartridge must be just a little bit different than the western counterpart.
The 9 x 18 Makarov cartridge is the upper limit of a simple blowback system without resorting to a comically heavy slide or some gimmick like a ringed chamber. I’ll give them credit for squeezing as much performance out of a simple blowback pistol as possible.
The 380 Auto was John Browning’s second cartridge to utilize a rimless design, the 45 ACP was the first rimless Browning cartridge. All prior Browning auto pistol cartridges were semi-rimmed designs such as the 32 ACP. In the early days of self-loading pistols, there was a lot of new ground being explored. The 380 Auto set the power ceiling for simple blowback designs and that ceiling remained for decades. The Soviets pushed it a little higher with the Makarov just after WWII.
While the 380 Auto isn’t the most powerful handgun cartridge when compared to some other options, it’s not at the bottom of the ranking either.
The gun used to assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife Sophie in Sarajevo, was a FN 1910 chambered in 380 Auto (not 32 ACP as is often erroneously reported). At least one of the rounds penetrated the body of the car they were riding in (although probably not one of the fatal rounds).
As I said earlier, cartridge wars are meaningless. The little 380 Auto killed two people in Sarajevo and, arguably indirectly more than 17 million more in the following Great War.
The 9 x 18 Makarov cartridge is the upper limit of a simple blowback system without resorting to a comically heavy slide or some gimmick like a ringed chamber. I’ll give them credit for squeezing as much performance out of a simple blowback pistol as possible.
The 380 Auto was John Browning’s second cartridge to utilize a rimless design, the 45 ACP was the first rimless Browning cartridge. All prior Browning auto pistol cartridges were semi-rimmed designs such as the 32 ACP. In the early days of self-loading pistols, there was a lot of new ground being explored. The 380 Auto set the power ceiling for simple blowback designs and that ceiling remained for decades. The Soviets pushed it a little higher with the Makarov just after WWII.
While the 380 Auto isn’t the most powerful handgun cartridge when compared to some other options, it’s not at the bottom of the ranking either.
The gun used to assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife Sophie in Sarajevo, was a FN 1910 chambered in 380 Auto (not 32 ACP as is often erroneously reported). At least one of the rounds penetrated the body of the car they were riding in (although probably not one of the fatal rounds).
As I said earlier, cartridge wars are meaningless. The little 380 Auto killed two people in Sarajevo and, arguably indirectly more than 17 million more in the following Great War.
Thumbcocker
Active Member
So, which is better .308 or .30-06?