I gone and done it...first lathe purchase!

[Ian]

It's a toy, but it will have to do for now.

Ordered a Grizzly 7x14 benchtop mini-lathe today, WOOHOO! http://www.grizzly.com/products/7-X...765?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com

I know it's small, has plastic change gears that are a really pain to set up, and has a small spindle bore, but I studied all the minis up to 10x22 and all of them above this one had one thing or another about them that was a show-stopper for my purposes. The final straw was this one has the largest steady rest at 2" capacity (makes no sense that the others were 1.25" and 1.75") and the fact that the carriage and spindle are both powered both directions and with a non-threaded spindle I can cut LH or RH threads away from the chuck, a method that has always made the most sense to me. The cross slide and compound are nicer and have more travel than some of the larger mini-lathes and the tailstock has a cam lock (great when you're drilling holes) and is much bigger and more stiff than even the 10x22.

I picked up a few accessories too, still need a Jacobs chuck for the tailstock, 4-jaw chuck, face plate clamps, dogs, and some carbide insert threading tools...and a QCTP with boring bar, tool holder, and cut off tool holder, but I'm going to get it set up, cleaned up, lubricated, adjusted, bearings run in etc. before getting crazy with accessory purchases.

Oh, and Brad, I got to waive the liftgate fee....because BOBCAT w/fork plate attachment

 

[Brad]

Is BOBCAT your pet name for your wife? This is good, she can get a trial run at carrying in kids toys!

Good on you Ian. I have a feeling you will get some good use from the lathe. Should beat your drill press and file.

Learn to grind HSS tools and you are in business.

 

[KeithB]

Nice purchase Ian, there are hundreds of things you can do with a lathe that size, for a price that's not much more than a powered case trimmer and a couple of loading presses.

Carbide is nice but honestly what Brad said is good advice, learn to grind HSS for turning and facing, for external threading HSS works great also, you can get square HSS stock with a 60 degree bevel already ground. Keep the cutting tip on center and cut away!

 

[Eutectic]

Ian,

You can't delve into the cast bullet/gun game as deep as several of us are without a lathe!

Glad you finally got some ways!

Pete

 

[JSH]

Good for you Ian, I think, lol.
OMG, I thought I had it bad with CB's. The machine shop stuff is worse or as bad I fear.
I got the Sheldon lathe from Bill. Then had the wants to upgrade my drill press. I am on a mission for a mill now. I have been scouring the local auctions looking.
Well I had wanted a Milwaukee porta band. Also wanted an 8" grinder to sharpen HSS bits on. I had a 6" but there are more choices on stones with the 8". Auction to close to the house to ignore 8 miles away. I checked it out and got to digging. NIB porta band, along with Ryobi 8"'grinder NIB, then saw they Milwaukee attachment for the portaband to make it a mounted saw,then noticed the porta band included 9 new blades. Then noticed a couple of Kennedy tool boxes, hmmm gotta be at least a bit of machinist stuff. So I looked through the whole mess. In one old locker of junk I found the stash of Starret! Wrapped up in an oily bunch of rags in an old beat up tin box. Got the whole lot of Starrett stuff for $20. Probably about $1000 worth of stuff in used selling prices. Got the saw,bench and blades bought for less than the cheapest price I found just for the saw!
Where does it stop guys? I may need some professional help,lol.
Oh got the grinder too, $30, no tax so that is about 1/3 the price of home disappointment.
Ian, brace your self,lol, it's just begun.
Jeff

 

[Ian]

It's mainly a matter of decreasing available time for me to do things the hard way, combined with just no way to cut good threads by hand that finally pushed me over the edge. I can make expander spuds from hardened bolts with drill press and file but spend more time filing the high sides off to keep it round than I do spinning it to profile. Soon I'll learn how to turn them from drill rod. Just about every reloading die I own has needed some sort of modification or other, and that's not even beginning to get into the gun stuff or car stuff. One good thing about doing without all these years is I have developed above-average skills with a good file! I cut my first 3/8" sight dovetail a couple months ago and got it nearly perfect in under an hour thanks to having learned how to control the cut and keep the file clean and flat through the stroke.

Oh, and Keith, now I can finally make my own H-die inserts for the press-mount conversion kit I bought from your first run (the nicely blackened ones). I've long wanted to make the end-all, be-all of push-through sizing dies for a couple of calibers and that threaded holder is just the ticket for a good start. The insert would have a long lead-in which is just equal to as-cast bullet body diameter, and have a slightly belled entrance so the seated checks don't get knocked off. Then it would step to the diameter required for desired size result. The push rod would be just small enough to pass the sizing portion and have a shoulder which would pilot inside the long lead-in so it would always be parallel with the die body....no chance of misalignment or crooked pushing that way.

I spoke with Bill a little about tooling, and I'm going to take cutter grinding and sharpening as its own particular skill set to be learned later on. Carbide stuff is cheap enough and available in a useful variety that I'm going to stick with that for now, even though I know grinding custom cutters will be a must for some jobs eventually.

I was all set to buy the 9x19 lathe with quick-change gearbox (well, sorta quick, it still has several cast iron change gears for threading but not nearly as many), but there is so much it WON'T do compared to this 7x14, the compound is short on travel and backlash plate quite junky, not to mention the wrench-operated tailstock clamp and flimsy tailstock casting, so I decided to compromise bed length for all the other features I need more. While doable in some instances, chambering sporter rifle barrels is just a bit beyond what this machine can realistically do, and I don't have any illusions about its limitations. Like Brad said, it's better than a drill press and file!

Jeff, I have looked for months for a used lathe (I enjoy restoring worn-out and semi-abused things), but Texas is machinery poor. Aside from the rare estate sale score most everything I found was overpriced, torn up, too far away, or all three. Eventually I'll probably become addicted and have to get a bigger, much more stable lathe (when the itch to re-barrel every rifle I own becomes unbearable), and by then I will have learned enough from this one to know exactly what I need to buy. In a way I'm glad there's no auction house eight miles away, I'd be broke in a hurry!

 

[Brad]

Ian, I have ground many HSS tools with little skill or experience. I even thread with tools I ground myself. Getting the right wheels made a huge difference. Mine are white Nortons and they cut fast and reasonably cool. They wear fast but a new set every 3 years won't be a huge hit on the wallet. With 1/4 or 5/16 square bits being 3-5 bucks each they are pretty cheap.
I order my metal from Speedymetals. Reasonable prices, pretty quick shipping. You will find 12L14 easy to turn, it is really good for many applications.
I bet you will learn a bunch and have fun too. Just keep that hair outta the chuck!

 

[smokeywolf]

Good on you Ian! Even though it's a small lathe, with your knowledge, imagination and resourcefulness I know you'll have a great time with it.

 

[Ian]

A very good and unfortunately departed friend and mentor used to advise me periodically (usually with a wink while reaching for a special-purpose instrument of some sort that he'd bought at Harbor Freight) that a job doesn't always require the BEST tool, only the CORRECT tool.

I used that philosophy to good effect as a professional mechanic, buying a vast array of cheap tools at first and replacing the ones I broke or wore out with better tools. In 20 years I probably have at least half of the Harbor Freight and Home Depot tools I started out with, and many of my "cheap" tools have gotten almost daily use. Still haven't had to put a handle in my HD 20-oz ball peen, and all the years as a front end specialist it got used about once every five minutes, all day, every day. Some things like a tool box really matter, though. When you're in and out of the drawers all day long the wear and tear on your finger tendons adds up fast if the slides aren't glass smooth. Also, you can get a lot more tools in a pro box than a generic one because the space is proportioned very efficiently. A Snap-On box will hold and organize roughly twice the tools of an equal-size Matco box, believe it or not (I found that out the hard way but love my Matco box for other reasons), there are some really smart people with 3D modeling software, tool size databases, and sales statistics working around the clock to optimize the most statistically efficient internal dimensions. I've found that only the very best Torx sockets and impact wobbles will do, and the spring in a lot of cheap socket extensions will hurt you sooner or later, and a thousand other little things that matter. I also found what DOESN'T matter, like that 4x4 spindle puller adapter for a slide hammer that cost $10 at O'reilly's, gets used once a decade, and works just as well as its $250 Snap-On counterpart. The end result was I have about $80K in mechanic's tools in the garage now instead of the typical $2-300K in matching, shiny Snap-On bling that a 20-year bumper-to-bumper pro tech has (not counting personally-owned computers, software, subscriptions, and diagnostic equipment), and my garage, house, and real estate are paid for with the money my mixed lot of tooling made me....and saved me.

 

[Eutectic]

One good thing about doing without all these years is I have developed above-average skills with a good file! I cut my first 3/8" sight dovetail a couple months ago
And Brad commented...
"Ian, I have ground many HSS tools with little skill or experience. I even thread with tools I ground myself. Getting the right wheels made a huge difference. Mine are white Nortons and they cut fast and reasonably cool."

You two young guys do an old man's heart good with comments like those quoted above!

My observations over the years is 'hand's on' skills are seeked out by some these days as someone else's 'hand's on' work they can buy!

Brad..... When I started a machinist apprenticeship in 1962 much of our first year was being trained how to sharpen tools! These ol' WW2 vets I learned from knew the secrets! I learned to hand sharpen tools willed to us from retired guys. Then we had to duplicate them from a high speed usually 1/2" hi speed tool bit. We learned angles, relief, rake, lipped tools, threading tools for "V", acme, square threads, boring bar tools, boring tool bits made from the bit for short holes, left hand turning tools, tools for different metals. Like brass being a different tool sharpening technique than steel. An absolute wealth of knowledge I still use until this day. Us apprentices had to do our jobs with high speed bits before we could even have a carbide tool. We were well into our second year before I scored one of the 'rare' insert type carbide cutters! We spent a month training on drill sharpening with a couple machines... BUT! WE had to display that we could sharpen a drill bit on a grinding wheel before we qualified as trained.! We learned to 'dub' drills for brass and other materials that wants to suck the drill in.... (even bullet alloy He-He)

My Dad had a nice ol' Sharps rifle. Nice except the barrel was shot as in no rifling! Dad bought a chambered (.45-70) barrel blank 32" from John Buhmiller in Kalispell, Montana. I was mid term in my apprenticeship. Dad hands me the old Sharps barrel he had removed......"I need you to grind me a lathe tool." he says. "I need it to cut that Sharps thread you are a holdin'." Where are you doing this?" I say. "Over at Olsen's... Can you make it?" "Yep" I say. I take the barrel to work and show it to Wes Rego. God bless ol' Wes! He added tool & die and gunsmithing to my apprenticeship! My Dad and I both shot with him. "Grind up a tool... Keep it a short cutting length because a square thread seems to always try to dig or suck in. Put a very shallow lip in it. Compare the tool to that barrel thread for a jig.. Let me see something.." Wes came back with a jewelers hoop and some little tools.... This looks square and it's not an Acme thread.." Wes said. "These edges taper a couple of degrees.. Grind your cutter to match the taper. Use this to see..." Wes handed me the hoop. I proudly showed Wes the cutter a little later. He held out his hand... "What?" I asked. "My hoop." Wes studied my tool bit both in and out of the old thread... "Real good job Pete.... Now make another one!" "Something wrong?" I bit my lip... "No... But you got no ability to do it if they break a tool."

Olsen's was in a barn..... He had an old lathe that looked about a 20" swing. It had a flat leather belt drive.... But that's not the best part. There was a Ford engine and transmission mounted in a homemade frame. A pup shaft came off the transmission spline and went to a pillow block bearing. A flat belt pulley was in-between.!! I was in awe! "Looks like a Model A engine!" I blurted out..... "Close kid! It's a "B" Model Ford 1932." Olsen cackled. They fired it up and it was loud inside! The exhaust was a straight pipe just out the wall; out an 8" hole! I had told them the threads per inch and they hunted gears in a wooden box... I wasn't to sure of this Olsen as a machinist? The thread was about half cut and I heard a snap! The tool bit had broke. Dad produced the second one. Ollie (as they called him) was floundering around. He doesn't know how to pick up the thread! I thought! I walked up and showed them. I figured I was already a smart a$$ kid now so I gave them a dissertation on cutting square or Acme type threads and feeding tool in s l o w l y .... Olsen kept quiet and the ol' man grinned. We finished the job!

My father was amazing with hand tools! Ian, I never saw anybody who could file as precision as him. He taught me through intimidation to file correctly. I never realized how good he taught me until I started using the mic on some of the work I did.... This same Sharps rifle has something he did to it after the story above took place. I won't write it now because I want to get the old rifle out and measure and look before I tell you something about amazing months of patience coupled with superb hands on skill!

Pete

 

[KeithB]

There is a lot to be said for the ability to grind your own tools and sharpen your own drills. I still keep a number of HSS and cobalt square tool blanks in various sizes around; just recently I ground a boring tool for line boring some tool blocks. For the hobbyist, toolmaker or millwright it is a good skill to have. One thing most folks don't mention is that on machines with limited horsepower and rigidity HSS tools with the proper shape exert less cutting force than carbide, even if they are the same shape. Polish the face of a positive rake HSS tool and you can have a slippery cutting tool.

On the other hand, for production work that skill is much less valuable. The virtues of carbide insert tooling are overwhelming.

 

[Ian]

Did he taper the barrel with a file?

 

[Ian]

Sharpening is one skill I never have been taught. I learned on my own how to sharpen a drill on a faced bench grinder and split the point with a stone, but putting an edge on wood-carving chisels and even planes, spoke shaves, and draw knives has always been tough for me. I use a Drill Dr. and diamond knife hones w/fixtures a lot, and last year finally broke down and bought an electric kitchen knife sharpener. I'm still learning what needs stropping, what needs a steel, and what needs a ceramic finish.

 

[Pistolero]

Ian,

That is great news. Those plastic gears won't hurt a thing for light cutting work like hobby folks
do. The torque driving the lead screw are low.

I like that they say up front "not scrimp on rigidity". If there is one thing that will really
screw up any job it is a flexible machine, letting the cutter move, and getting chatter and poor
finish. A rigid frame will be really nice. Looks like it will do a lot.

With all the neat stuff you have done while "faking it", you will LOVE the lathe and you will
go to town. The grin will be hard to wipe off of your face for quite a while when you start
making stuff. For me the fun is being able to make it precisely. I used to make parts and mods with
files and dremel tool, and they would work...but not a nice and predictable and precise as
I wanted.

I was tickled last night making a dovetailed front sight and fitting it for my Ruger Commander.
Used a dovetail cutter to make the dovetail on the sight, and trimming and fitting it was
tricky for a beginner, but in the end it is perfectly fitted and now I need to drill it for a fiber optic and
angle the back face and put striations across it. I was tickled learning to make a dovetail sight to
fit a pre-existing dovetail. I used a friend's dovetail measuring tool, and it worked great.

Little jobs like this are fun, IMO, and I think you will find all sorts of stuff to have fun with, too.
Guns and reloading always need some funny little oddly shaped piece of metal.....

Next time I am in Texas, I need to stop by and show you how to sharpen a knife. Not hard, and
if you can do a dovetail with a file, I will have you making razors out of everything pretty quickly. My father
taught me to sharpen when I was a kid, and it stuck. My wife has to bite her tongue when we
go to relatives to do Thanksgiving or Christmas dinners. She is spoiled with a draw full of razor
sharp knives and gets pretty irked at the relatives junky, dull crap. I taught my BIL (her brother)
to sharpen after he totaled a nice pocket folder I got him trying to put an edge on it. Now he
is good at it and won't tolerate dull knives, either.

Bill

 

[smokeywolf]

Although my apprenticeship was pretty comprehensive, when I was told that there were a couple of hundred drills in the tool crib that needed sharpening and I asked who was going to teach me to sharpen drills, I was told, "go buy a book". I did and by the time I'd sharpened 400-500 drills over the course of a couple of years, even the old timers were having me sharpen their drills. I could split a point freehand on drills as small as 3/32".

Anybody who can put a proper point on a drill bit isn't going to have any trouble grinding a toobit.

Bill, I too am a bit OCD about the kitchen knives. I use a combination of diamond and Japanese water stones for kitchen knives. Use diamond, ceramics and a extremely fine hard Arkansas for my straight razors.

Ian, I'm looking forward to seeing your first part(s) machined on your new lathe.

 

[Ian]

I'm looking forward to it too. Guess I'd better lay in a supply of round bar, huh?

 

[KeithB]

Ian, I'm sure you'll use old bolts and other stuff for raw material but if there is anything in particular you might need feel free to contact me. We tend to generate lots of scrap and due to limited shop space we can't accumulate much w/o getting buried. I wouldn't mind packing up a large flat rate box full of stuff and sending it to you. I've shipped lead in LFR boxes before w/no trouble.

About two weeks ago we gave 200+ lbs of aluminum bar stock (in small pieces) and 100+ lbs of steel cutoffs, scrapped parts, etc. to a guy in exchange for 2 large garbage cans full of wood chips to use on the floor to soak up splashed soluble oil.

 

[Ian]

This is like when I first got my shop dried in, got bottles for my torch, supplies for my welders, and all set to go.....but the scrap pile was tabula rasa. It took me a long time to scrounge scrap plate, pipe, angle, strap and accumulate a small inventory of scrap from new stuff where I could do anything useful. In most cases I just had to break down and buy new steel, which without driving two hours or ordering it by the ton is very difficult to do. With a mini-lathe and the projects I can foresee, short pieces of aluminum in the 1/2" to 1.5" would be MOST handy. Until I get a better tool post and a really solid cut-off tool and holder, cutting long bars to working size where they can be faced, center drilled, etc. will be a hassle. Message incoming...

 

[Pistolero]

Ian,

Too bad you don't have one of these nearby. This place is a 20 minute drive away. Picking through there scrap bin is FUN.

http://www.metalbythefoot.com/

Holy mackerel, Keith. The next time I have to drive to Va, maybe I need to come by and buy some of your scrap. Scrap to you is probably
worth a lot to me for the small stuff I make.

Bill

 

[Pistolero]

Smokeywolf -- I never thought too much about keeping knives sharp, but one Christmas
my sister's son, about 14 then, was opening a present and struggling a bit. I handed him
my ever present pocket knife. His mother immediately warned him "That will be like a razor
blade, be careful!". I had to smile. Yep, it will be.

Dad taught me well, and once you have sharp knives, dull ones are just kinda irritating. Have to
be fixed.

Bill