I love the .44 special

[oscarflytyer]

So - I WANT a 25/625 like Ben's. But... They all seem to be way overpriced (least for me!). I do have a Smith 1917 made in 1918/fulfilled the 1943 Brazilian contract. It is surface ugly, but shoots like a dream. Why I want the 25/625. Having said that, about 18 mo back picked up the Redhawk 45 ACP/45 Colt in 4.2" bbl. It does NOT have the Smith trigger, but I am still very happy with it.

 

[CZ93X62]

The 44 Special is a great caliber, when loaded to its true potential. (Heresy alert)

When introduced in 1908 the 44 Special had a 246 RN lead bullet running in the 700-725 FPS ballpark. This duplicated the ballistics of the 44 Russian, and while that large diameter bullet was nice the 45 Colt remained superior.

Nothing is as constant as change, though--intrepid types like Elmer Keith played with the 38 Special, 44 Special, and 45 Colt seeking a bit more performance from these chamberings. The 45 Colt didn't take kindly to being strained significantly past its established performance envelope in the revolvers of that day (1930s Colt and S&W products with heat-treated cylinders), but the S&W N-frame 38 and 44 Specials did. I imagine the Colt New Service did as well, but Mr. Keith and S&W seemed joined at the hip.

In 1935 S&W birthed the 357 Magnum. 20 years later, they produced the 44 Magnum. I suspect the Second World War had much to do with that delay. Both Magnum calibers are excellent performers, and there hasn't been a time in the past 40 years that I haven't had at least one of each on hand to play or work with. I love my S&Ws, certainly--but Rugers make better, stronger platforms for the Magnum rounds if full-time usage is on the menu. (Exception--the L-frame 357 Magnums are PERFECTION in 357 Magnum--Springfield got that one right, finally).

In 1964 S&W brought out the 41 Magnum, which is a superb sidearm concept. IMHO, that caliber's lead-bullet 'Police Load' should have become a boiler-plate classic self-defense round for law enforcement and citizen venues. 210 grains of SWC heavy metal .410" in diameter running 900 FPS from a 4" barrel is decisive-plus at putting down goblins. You can't tell me that S&W wasn't plagiarizing Skeeter Skelton's 44 Special upgrade ('Skeeter's Load') when they did this.

All of this ignores the fact that the majority of 44 Specials in our midst in 2023 are not amenable to Skeeter's Load--the Charter Arms models. 'Skeeter' might be a bit much in those arms as a steady diet. There are 44 Special loads out there that claim 850-900 FPS with 200 grain bullets in the CharCo--that seems like their sweet spot to me.

Those S&W Model 69s CALL TO ME! I almost snagged a 4" variant on the day I picked up my Python x 6" ten months ago. Had it been a 3", I would have cut paper and waited Gavin & Co.'s 10 days. If ever there was a platform designed around 'Skeeter's Load, it is the Model 69. Even Elmer's idea--"1200 FPS is all you need!" would get along with an L-frame 5-shot. So would the now-extinct 41 Magnum 'Police Load'.

Just some entertaining heresies to savor while we all enjoy our holiday season 2023. Merry Christmas!

 

[Winelover]

We are hamstrung with the current 44 Special offerings. SA's need not apply. You have the CA Bulldogs, Ruger GP 100's and the various 44 Mag offerings, in DA revolvers. I have shot Skeeter loads in my Bulldog, but not a steady diet. However, there is no need............recoil insures that.

For me the 44 Magnum offerings are too heavy and if I were to that route, it would be reduced loadings in 44 Magnum brass, not 44 Special.

 

[Glaciers]

Yeah the model 69 4” was a good pistol which my only real complaint I had was stainless steel which is obviously a personal choice. There wasn’t that much of a difference between my model 29 and the 69 so I simply had to look at the 69 not as a replacement for the model 29 but a pistol in its own right. I would still own it if a trade I could not pass up.

 

[RBHarter]

Multiple cartridge utility per familiar frame ......

If a maker for example builds a 454 Casual capable platform with a full moon clips cut , it's not a big deal for us to back it down to a 800 fps 165 gr SWC or run it up to a 1200 fps 300 ogival WC . While I hate crud rings , load segregation would be much easier using Cowboy , S&W , Colts ,and 454 brass . In an SA it's just a pin away to have a correct chamber for GAP , ACP , Rowland , Mag , and all of the above too . In the 454 RH with the Ruger clip.......well crud rings but why not .

The S&W hopped up to 20kpsi much like the Colt is a much more authoritive round .

The 380-357 , 40/10 38/40 , heck even the whole 32 clan would be pretty spiffy . Pointless in some cases I'm sure but not any less fun .

 

[CZ93X62]

My biases are what they are--mostly due to my physical stature and long successful usage of medium and medium-large-framed roller and slider sidearms as CCW items. Gotta play to yer strengths, right?

I am greatly enamored with my S&W Model 625 x 4". It gets carried in social settings pretty frequently--about as much as my Glock 23. Now--about that question of 'Autopistol rounds in a wheelgun?' I can only speak to the 45 ACP from actual first-hand usage, but the derivatives of the S&W M-1917 have been in almost-constant production since they were rolled out as a wartime expediency in that same year, which prompts the next question--Por que?

Lots of reasons, actually. In the 1920s, the 1911-series pistols were not the refined items they are 100 years later--they were prone to stoppages if non-FMJRN ammo was tried, and a community of shooters reared on revolvers did not take well to the three-pulse recoil dynamics of the 1911 pistols at first. Chamber that same round at similar strength in a S&W N-frame or Colt New Service, though? NICE! DOCILE! ACCURATE! LEAD BULLETS WORK!

S&W offers another intriguing revolver in 4" and 6" barrel lengths, their Model 610. Full-moon clips are readily available for it, both OEM and aftermarket. I have owned at least one 10mm since the early 1990s, and a 4" M-610 with Norma-level loads in it (200 grain JHPs @ 1200 FPS) with a couple hard moon-clips in belt baskets would do to ride the river with. So too would a 5-shot Model 69 in 3" flavor, since we are on the subject of '0.4"+ bullets at decent ZIP Codes from wheelguns'.

My heresies take on a life of their own at times. Sorry about that.

 

[Walks]

I like the .44Spl a whole lot. My Dad was fond of a pre 24 Target model He kept it going with the Skeeter load. I have Colt SAA's and a few clones in the Special. And a VERY accurate 624 - 3" that shoots like an 8 3/8" from a rest. I've been using the .44Russian brass since it came out. I just dry brush the chambers every time I shoot it. Never had a problem with crud build up, same with .38Spl in .357Mag. The Skeeter load and a light Cowboy load with 210gr RNFP are My only Special loads. Toss in that Russian load, and it's all I need.

 

[fiver]

If a maker for example builds a 454 Casual capable platform with a full moon clips cut

believe it or not.
the original 454 was the 450 magnum and it had rebated rim cases.
it was in a north american arms revolver that was a collaboration between them and Dick that didn't end real amicably.

you could get the gun with the 450 cylinder, a 45 colt cylinder, and a 45 win mag cylinder.
i tried for years and years to get Dick to make me a 45 Colt cylinder for the one i had, but the best i ever got from him was a maybe,,, if i'm snowed in for a month one of these days.
i finally sold the gun a bit after he died... but i still have a factory box of ammo round here somewhere.

 

[Thumbcocker]

The 44 Special is a great caliber, when loaded to its true potential. (Heresy alert)

When introduced in 1908 the 44 Special had a 246 RN lead bullet running in the 700-725 FPS ballpark. This duplicated the ballistics of the 44 Russian, and while that large diameter bullet was nice the 45 Colt remained superior.

Nothing is as constant as change, though--intrepid types like Elmer Keith played with the 38 Special, 44 Special, and 45 Colt seeking a bit more performance from these chamberings. The 45 Colt didn't take kindly to being strained significantly past its established performance envelope in the revolvers of that day (1930s Colt and S&W products with heat-treated cylinders), but the S&W N-frame 38 and 44 Specials did. I imagine the Colt New Service did as well, but Mr. Keith and S&W seemed joined at the hip.

In 1935 S&W birthed the 357 Magnum. 20 years later, they produced the 44 Magnum. I suspect the Second World War had much to do with that delay. Both Magnum calibers are excellent performers, and there hasn't been a time in the past 40 years that I haven't had at least one of each on hand to play or work with. I love my S&Ws, certainly--but Rugers make better, stronger platforms for the Magnum rounds if full-time usage is on the menu. (Exception--the L-frame 357 Magnums are PERFECTION in 357 Magnum--Springfield got that one right, finally).

In 1964 S&W brought out the 41 Magnum, which is a superb sidearm concept. IMHO, that caliber's lead-bullet 'Police Load' should have become a boiler-plate classic self-defense round for law enforcement and citizen venues. 210 grains of SWC heavy metal .410" in diameter running 900 FPS from a 4" barrel is decisive-plus at putting down goblins. You can't tell me that S&W wasn't plagiarizing Skeeter Skelton's 44 Special upgrade ('Skeeter's Load') when they did this.

All of this ignores the fact that the majority of 44 Specials in our midst in 2023 are not amenable to Skeeter's Load--the Charter Arms models. 'Skeeter' might be a bit much in those arms as a steady diet. There are 44 Special loads out there that claim 850-900 FPS with 200 grain bullets in the CharCo--that seems like their sweet spot to me.

Those S&W Model 69s CALL TO ME! I almost snagged a 4" variant on the day I picked up my Python x 6" ten months ago. Had it been a 3", I would have cut paper and waited Gavin & Co.'s 10 days. If ever there was a platform designed around 'Skeeter's Load, it is the Model 69. Even Elmer's idea--"1200 FPS is all you need!" would get along with an L-frame 5-shot. So would the now-extinct 41 Magnum 'Police Load'.

Just some entertaining heresies to savor while we all enjoy our holiday season 2023. Merry Christmas!

The 250 Keith loaded over 8.0 of Power pistol goes over 900 fps depending on barrel length and is a category 1 load i.e. not plus p. It has served me well.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I really like the 44 Special but wish there was a SAAMI sanctioned +P rating.
To me, ......a slightly warm 44 Special is a far more useful loading than the 44 magnum for about 95% of what a 44 caliber revolver is called upon to perform. If you need that last 5%, that's what they make the 44 magnum for.

I get around my lack of a 44 Special revolver by loading a "Skeeter equivlent" 44 cartridge in 44 magnum cases and shoot them in a 44 magnum revolver. This results in a huge margin of strength.

A 240-250 grain LSWC is about the universal bullet in that arena and I am very content to use the RCBS mold for that bullet. About 8.2 grains of Unique in a magnum casing and I'm good to go.

 

[beagle]

Been plinking with older .44 Special loads at 200 yard large targets across the pasture with a M29 4". Holds up pretty darn good at that range. One of the easiest loading cartridges I've ever loaded. Love it./beagle

 

[Jeff H]

I really like the 44 Special but wish there was a SAAMI sanctioned +P rating.
To me, ......a slightly warm 44 Special is a far more useful loading than the 44 magnum for about 95% of what a 44 caliber revolver is called upon to perform. If you need that last 5%, that's what they make the 44 magnum for.

I get around my lack of a 44 Special revolver by loading a "Skeeter equivlent" 44 cartridge in 44 magnum cases and shoot them in a 44 magnum revolver. This results in a huge margin of strength.

A 240-250 grain LSWC is about the universal bullet in that arena and I am very content to use the RCBS mold for that bullet. About 8.2 grains of Unique in a magnum casing and I'm good to go.

100%!

Any other cartridge, I'll not mess with published/original loading levels and almost always end up loading below max on them. The 44 Special got stuck in paper-target mode, which it excels at, but there's so much USEFUL potential left on the table without going to the 'Mag. The 44 Mag is a bit much for anything I need. Powders like Herco and Unique do a wonderful job getting very useful ballistics from the 'Special at half or less the dosage as a full-powered 44 Mag wants from slower powders. Yes, I exceed (most) contemporary published data for the 44 Special, while looking sideways at people for doing the same with any other cartridge.

 

[Glaciers]

Well I’m with you on the semi auto rimless cartridge in a revolver to a point. The 45 ACP is that point. They are great pistols, and I like moon clips.
But 9mm, 10mm, no thanks.

Wanted to edit and clarify my thoughts on rimless revolver just a bit. The 45ACP revolver has been with us for over a century so it was created for a reason/need of the time, so it is I my book a traditional revolver loading.
I’m very slow to except new stuff in firearms so that’s where I hang my hat.
I am just starting to warm to the idea that 9mm, 10mm and 45ACP in semiautomatic pistols might be “OK”, maybe. Advantages are high capacity, thin for CC.
But revolvers in 9 or 10mm, no. YMMV.

But back to the 44Spl. What I’m reading on this post is the versatility of the 44SPL cartridge and the lack of available middle ground 5 or 6 shot guns.
The other thing is being able to throw a reasonably heavy weight slug at moderate velocity. This includes 44, 45 and possibly in my case to include 480.
I currently have 3 44SPL pistols, Bulldog, Rossi 720 and a Smith 24-3. They are nice guns and have found a permanent home.
But the 45’s in 22-4 model 1950, the 625 and soon a Red Hawk 4” in 45LC/45ACP, these are sweet guns able to throw light to heavy pieces of lead at moderate velocity.
I’ll add in the SRH in 480. The reason is that I would love to have a custom 50SPL, but realistically that’s not going to happen. Heating oil is to expensive.
But the 480 can be a wild cartridge that can handle anything on this planet.
Mine has had the barrel cut back from 7.5 to 5.5. It is a nice shooting pistol even with 400 at 1100 plus fps. But getting back to the 50 spl idea, why not take that 410 grain bullet and plunk along at 850 to 900 fps. I need to give that a try now that my inventory of hot stuff is about gone.
My point is, if I really have one, is whether your shooting 44, 45, or 480 any of these can be moderated for pleasure or beefed up for dinosaur.
For me this is a very interesting thread, I’m enjoying it a lot.
Merry Christmas
John

 

[Winelover]

The only reason 45ACP revolvers came about was as a stop gap effort for the Great War. Old Slab Sides couldn't be produced fast enough. Personally, the 45 LC would have been a better choice but the army bean counters didn't want two different kinds of 45 ammunition.

 

[Walks]

I use what I call a medium target load in My .44Mag revolvers. It's 9.5grs of Unique under a #429421 in a Magnum case. It came about because I started shooting at the LAPD Harbor Range about 1978-1979. They didn't allow Magnum loadings. So I started to load max .38Spl, & .44Spl in Mag cases. Increasing by half a grain of Unique until the Range Officer complained. Then backed down half a grain. Ending up with 6.0grs under a #358429 in .357Mag and 9.5grs in .44Mag. The Skeeter load in .44Spl with 7.5grs of Unique under a #429421 was all ready acceptable.
Even though that range has been closed almost 20yrs, I'll be using those loads for a Long time yet.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

........but the army bean counters didn't want two different kinds of 45 ammunition.

The term "bean counters" implies money is in play.
It's not the money that is the problem, it is the logistics.

But other than that term, I agree, two different cartridges in the supply chain would be a logistical nightmare.

There is an old adage that states, “Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics.”
The origins have been lost to time and it has been attributed to many different people. Regardless of the source, it is very true.

 

[RicinYakima]

The term "bean counters" implies money is in play.
It's not the money that is the problem, it is the logistics.

But other than that term, I agree, two different cartridges in the supply chain would be a logistical nightmare.

There is an old adage that states, “Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics.”
The origins have been lost to time and it has been attributed to many different people. Regardless of the source, it is very true.

All very true. Plus the US had just rid all of the Model 1909 New Service Colt revolvers and ammo to the state militias. The 45 ACP revolvers was the best decision that could have been made as 455 Webleys were coming off the line at both Colt and Smith & Wesson.

 

[RBHarter]

You could make your 40 rimmed out of split neck 30-30 then it'd be a revolver round then stretch it out to 1.285 run it up to 40 kpsi. Now it's a traditional mag or maybe a super mag since the 10 mm already is sort of .

 

[CZ93X62]

You could make your 40 rimmed out of split neck 30-30 then it'd be a revolver round then stretch it out to 1.285 run it up to 40 kpsi. Now it's a traditional mag or maybe a super mag since the 10 mm already is sort of .

10mm Auto Rim--you heard it first at A&SBC!

 

[Thumbcocker]

10mm Auto Rim--you heard it first at A&SBC!

Wasn't that called the .401 powemag by Herters?