I'm sure this might seem silly to a lot of you but......

[Eutectic]

I had to smile waco...... It was many years ago I decided to re-chamber my Model 16 Smith to .32-20. I needed the cylinder out for this dainty task. I didn't know then how to get it out! Stoeger's had a good schematic of it and I found out and remembered.... Seems the older guns had more thought in design.... You know....before guns were stamped from tin! I used to compete in Sporting Clays with vintage shotguns. I've had a love affair with the Winchester Model 97 ever since the 50's! They earned me the nickname of "Slidehammer". I also work on them. I can't tell you how many I have seen the carrier pin 'beat out' with a punch right over the retaining screw! Or the barrel band.... The attaching screws have short pins on their ends; the bottom of the barrel is notched with two opposing end mill slots. This is where the barrel band goes! It is a rare day you don't see the barrel's underside 'scared' to beat the band where some Do-Do has tried to force the screws into place instead of looking at things first!

Pete

 

[Rick]

I've got a 97, was dad's shotgun who got it from his dad who bought it new, not real sure but I think around 1910 or so. It's the gun that earned the Marines the nickname Devil Dogs from the Germans in the war to end all wars. Haven't shot it since probably the 70's, it's retired to a family keepsake.

 

[Ian]

My FIL had one, my (our) boss bought it from the estate. It had the ventilated handguard and a bayonet that was about two feet long, and I dang sure would not have ever wanted to be on the wrong end of it.

 

[fiver]

those were known as the 'trench' guns.
the Mil. marked ones are worth a small fortune.
the bayonet alone is almost a house payment.

 

[Eutectic]

Those were known as the 'tough' guns!

Ask those "Devil Dogs" in WW1....

Ask P. O. Ackley...... Huh?

P.O. Ackley re-barreled a Winchester Model 97 years' ago with a .30-06 barrel!!! After a box of factory loads he checked headspace and it hadn't changed! So he started with blue pills. (hot test loads) He kept going up in pressure.... Finally he blew the barrel off the receiver! The interrupted thread for the takedown feature had stripped off! The headspace still hadn't moved! (bolt hadn't receded)

Pete

 

[USSR]

I'm sure this might seem silly to a lot of you but......

Yeah, now that you mention it, it does seem silly to be talking about the Winchester Model 97 in the Handgun Forum.

Don

 

[waco]

LOL! A little thread drift never hurt anyone!

 

[Ian]

Ha! If thread drift bothers you, you've sure come to the wrong place....some of the best discussions here evolve from a tangent coming in around page two. That's what happens when you get a small group of interesting and intelligent people together.

 

[Brad]

Drift?

 

[USSR]

Ha! If thread drift bothers you, you've sure come to the wrong place....some of the best discussions here evolve from a tangent coming in around page two. That's what happens when you get a small group of interesting and intelligent people together.

Ian,

Please note the "Big Grin" after my post. Context is everything.

Don

 

[Brad]

We have taken drift to an art form.
The big grin was noticed, and appreciated!

I will say that I wasn't aware that the 97 was that big a collectable. And the bayonet? Yikes.

 

[Pistolero]

Continuing on the 97 direction. The bolt of that shotgun is unbelievable complex
piece of work. No side is unmachined and several cuts are extremely complex shapes
that had to be very tricky to do in the old days. The more of JB's designs that I become
familiar with the more amazed I am by his incredible design abilities.

Bill

 

[fiver]

and then the model 12 that come after it being as simple as can be.
so simple it got copied for the AR-15/M-16 rifles.
and was also adapted to the model-14, super X series, and many other win/browning guns.[including the Remington and Ithaca copy's]
the new model 13's are still close in design but the bolt face has been modified to 2 large lugs.

 

[Eutectic]

Continuing on the 97 direction. The bolt of that shotgun is unbelievable complex
piece of work. No side is unmachined and several cuts are extremely complex shapes
that had to be very tricky to do in the old days. The more of JB's designs that I become
familiar with the more amazed I am by his incredible design abilities.

Bill

I apologize...... My post did start on the S & W cylinder retaining screw; and then comments on the complexities of assembly/dis-assembly tricks (actually knowledge) spun me out of control talking about one of my first loves...

However....... Pistolero you are spot on and exactly correct in your comments above! And not just the bolt! The receiver as well. If the group has a '97 handy look at the left bolt run machined into the receiver.... Now look ever closer from the back of an assembled closed '97 at that spot... See that little dinky 90 degree slot on the inside that is also cut full length!! The left extractor has a guide rail on it that rides in this dinky groove! How would all you machinists like to mill/broach that little 'slot' in the old days of hi-speed steel and no computer help?

Pete

 

[quicksylver]

Ah ..97"s and Smith 29's..now we're talking...

Here's my .."If I only knew".....back when I was selling Police equipment,I had the opportunity to "Up Grade" a couple of local "Bad Boy Farms"... the mind set of the time was too get something that was lighter and easier to maintain..so I replaced barrels (55 gal drums) of 92 Winchesters in 38-40 and Win. 97 Riot guns (All military with stamps and hand guards)..allowing them a $35.00 trade in for each...and I was the higher bidder..!!

Here's the kicker..I sold them for $80.00 each figuring I had made a killing...

Did I keep any..?...only for awhile...certainly not to the point that they brought $3,500.00..oh well..

 

[Rick]

I've never priced the military 97's but I never saw either a big demand or price tag on the civilian version because they made literally millions of them. Maybe it's time to check out the price of them today. Mine is most definitely not for sale but it could be interesting to see what they go for today, been years since I've checked.

 

[quicksylver]

The thing to look for on the civilian model "riot " 97 is the barrel markings..
If they were made as a riot gun..the short barrel will be stamped cyl...if that's not there it's just a 97 with a cut off barrel..

 

[Rick]

Mine is not the riot gun, no cut off barrel. Don't remember off hand what the barrel length is but it is definitely for reaching out and touching something. Up until the mid 60's I was using it for duck, quail & pheasant.

 

[Eutectic]

Winchester still made the "Trench Gun" barrels up into the end of WW2 that I know of. They are 20". You can tell them by the "cyl" marking and no sight bead and three round milled slots across the barrel's unside a few inches back from the muzzle. These slots were for heat guard/bayonet attachments. The trench barrel I have was made in 1944.

Pete

 

[Rick]

Mine was purchased new well before the 97 ever went to war, sometime pre 1910. It does have a front sight bead, no milled slots.