It’s a nice little rifle but…

[BBerguson]

My CVA Scout, stainless, camo stock in 44 mag. I love the looks, I love the size and the trigger isn’t bad. I just can’t get anything that shoots great in it. Tried again today after checking the base again and mounting a different scope. The first shot for each group was looking really good (that’s a joke) and then group would open up to two inches (this isn’t a joke).

The barrel was clean when I started. I fired three sight in rounds with 8gr of BE-86. It was 6 inches high so I adjusted the scope. First shot with the load I was testing was 6 inches low. 10.5 gr Herco, Roll eyes and adjust it back… Groups were bad enough with 3 shots I stopped and started another with the same results. It was too disappointing to keep going so I packed it up and tried the 450 BM. First two shots looked promising and then I fired the third. I was done. I can handle the cold, 19 degrees, actually like it, but I can’t handle the inaccuracy and cold combined. The Scout made my hand cold because I had to have a glove off to load and unload but I was surviving.

If I were going to hunt deer inside 100 yards and it was my only meat gun I’d be happy with it, I could kill all deer I ever wanted to with it. But I wanted a 44mag rifle that would shoot bug hole groups and I could plink with it because I have lots of brass, bullets and powder (and a dillon 550). Without the accuracy it’s just a noise maker, I think it’s going on the for sale rack next week.

 

[358156 hp]

You're unhappy with 2 inch groups from an economy single-shot rifle chambered in a pistol caliber, at 100 yards?

How does it shoot with factory ammo?

 

[BBerguson]

You're unhappy with 2 inch groups from an economy single-shot rifle chambered in a pistol caliber, at 100 yards?

How does it shoot with factory ammo?

50 yard groups. I’d be happy with 2” 100 yard groups, very happy. I don’t know how it shoots factory ammo. I haven’t bought any in 35 years and not going to start.

 

[JWFilips]

BB,
It is not a target rifle but it sounds like it is a great shooter for what it is! I have a single shot .223!
Try as I may It can only do so much! I worked the throat, I tailored my loads but it is just what it is ! It shoots great for an economy rifle!

 

[BBerguson]

I have one more jacketed bullet round I don’t think I’ve tried yet. It’s a 260 or 265gr flat point loaded with Win 296. It’s not the plinking load I want but I should see if it will group. I loaded them 10 or more years ago but the details are downstairs while I’m upstairs and too lazy to go look.

I should try some bunny fart loads too just for the heck of it. 5gr or unique. Like I said, I like the rifle, just wanted better accuracy.

 

[Ian]

Trade it in, put twice again the cash with it, and get a used Model 29. When you get good at shooting it it will do 2" at 100 from bags. I have several revolver-caliber carbines and most of them don't do as well at 50 as your .44 does. If you ever figure out how to make a fixed-chamber .44 or .45 rimmed shoot, please share the wisdom.

In the meantime....

Neck-size your brass with your FL die, just far enough down the case body to hold the bullet, leaving the rest fire-formed to your chamber. Try about 19 grains of 2400. Seat the bullet out far enough to touch something in the throat. And before you take it out again, do two things to the rifle: Remove the barrel and use brake cleaner to remove every last tiny trace of lubricant from the barrel latch, breech face, and barrel face. Then clamp the barrel in a vise, wrap a layer of 2-0 steel wool around a .44 bronze brush, screw that on a steel range rod with a brass cone bushing (muzzle protector) against the chamber, and run that through the barrel DRY, full-length, as hard and fast as you can for 100 strokes from the breech end, going from throat to stopping just short of the muzzle (tape on the rod helps). Send a few through the muzzle near the end. Check the crown for burrs under magnification. Clean the barrel and try your new ammo in it.

 

[RBHarter]

I wonder if a long groove dia throat would help .
Seriously everyone always says the 45 ACP cylinder shoots better that the Colts cylinder in the RBH what if the trick is just something stupid like having an inch of acceleration jump to the lands in front of the chamber ........

The isolation box is working!!!!
When I get everything back in balance the brain juices get really smart or really smart burro .

 

[Michael]

I forgot where I read it long ago, the one variable to change that will influence accuracy more than anything else is the bullet, try a different one. I once read an article in an older issue of Handloader where the author was checking revoler accuracy, the only variable changed was the powder weight, 0.1grs at a time. He then graphed out the results, the graph reminded me of looking at an EKG strip. We're not talking gradual changes, but rather 0.2gr and sometimes just 0.1grs was the difference between nice group and the hell with it.

What Ian said about neck sizing, also run a load series with it, go up 0.5grs and down 0.5grs, 0.1grs at a time and see what it does, try a different powder as well. Are you engaging the lands with your current seating depth? I start at 0.030" into the lands with cast whenever I can, and adjust seating depth and/or charge weights from there. Additionally there is the all important bullet dia variable, and the lube, PC vs traditional, GC or PB.

Lastly maybe the rifle just does not like bunny, mouse, cat, or dog fart loads, or even regular fart loads in general for that matter. Perhaps it just simply needs a really good BM to feel on top of things and perform well.

BM, as in bore movement.

 

[Ian]

I think Rich might have actually solved the whole problem and I have a .45 Colt carbine that could be reamed to prove it out. You doing third shift in a guard shack or something? That would give a person a lot of time to ponder the mysteries of the universe....and come up with some very singular hypotheses.

The steel wool trick was to save 500 rounds of full-house jacketed bullet break in. Maybe they rifled it in a black powder twist like Marlin and Winchester did for decades, might be the whole problem right there. Maybe try a 200-grain bullet?

 

[RBHarter]

Worse second shift 1200-0000 I hustle 1600-0000 Thursday, see about 10 faces for the same on Friday , maybe 4-5 Saturday and about 10 after 2100 Sunday.......

Weatherby may have been on to a thing and if a guy had an action and a .451 bullet barrel with a 454 revolver reamer and made a few rimless 45 S&W or 45 mag cases ....... The theory could be tested and still be able to salvage or extend the test pretty cheaply . Now there's a legit test excuse, and all I need is a turn and thread and a bolt head .

Anybody ever seen a Savage nut on a 1.128 barrel blank left raw ?

 

[RBHarter]

Funny thing happened recently.
A guy sold me a pair of Lachmiller case savers 1 for parts 1 complete and threw in a set of Pacific 44 Special dies so I could trade of the second 451 barrel for a .426 or .432 and if I can take a 243 down to 6.5 Japanese in 2 strokes I should be able to get 44? out of 06' or 308 just as easy . .......... Ouch 44 mag from 06' I have some ......right feeding the rim ......details lil' bitty un's .

 

[fiver]

cut off 0-6 make a pretty fair 44 case.
just that rim thing is different, overcome by swapping the H/S to the front of the case.

 

[Spindrift]

I've got one of those, actually. Cutting down a -06 (or similar case-head) brass, and loading with a .44 bullet, makes the .44 Automag.
I've got such a barrel for a customized R700 switch-barrel. Still some load development to do, but this seems to be 1 MOA capable. And a lot of fun!

 

[johnnyjr]

What alloy are you using
My Rossi 92 in 38/357 shoots great with a softer bullet. Like a bhn of 8/11. I had a Henry 44 that would shoot only soft at about 1400 fps. I hated that rifle. Sold it..

 

[358156 hp]

I think Rich might have actually solved the whole problem and I have a .45 Colt carbine that could be reamed to prove it out. You doing third shift in a guard shack or something? That would give a person a lot of time to ponder the mysteries of the universe....and come up with some very singular hypotheses.

The steel wool trick was to save 500 rounds of full-house jacketed bullet break in. Maybe they rifled it in a black powder twist like Marlin and Winchester did for decades, might be the whole problem right there. Maybe try a 200-grain bullet?

Or a long throat. TC seemed to have invented that little foible. I had a few TC with such long throats that the bullet had to take a taxi to the rifling. Contrast that with uber short throats on other rifles like some lever actions. I'm assuming that OP has already slugged the bore, etc.

 

[BBerguson]

Trade it in, put twice again the cash with it, and get a used Model 29. When you get good at shooting it it will do 2" at 100 from bags. I have several revolver-caliber carbines and most of them don't do as well at 50 as your .44 does. If you ever figure out how to make a fixed-chamber .44 or .45 rimmed shoot, please share the wisdom.

In the meantime....

Neck-size your brass with your FL die, just far enough down the case body to hold the bullet, leaving the rest fire-formed to your chamber. Try about 19 grains of 2400. Seat the bullet out far enough to touch something in the throat. And before you take it out again, do two things to the rifle: Remove the barrel and use brake cleaner to remove every last tiny trace of lubricant from the barrel latch, breech face, and barrel face. Then clamp the barrel in a vise, wrap a layer of 2-0 steel wool around a .44 bronze brush, screw that on a steel range rod with a brass cone bushing (muzzle protector) against the chamber, and run that through the barrel DRY, full-length, as hard and fast as you can for 100 strokes from the breech end, going from throat to stopping just short of the muzzle (tape on the rod helps). Send a few through the muzzle near the end. Check the crown for burrs under magnification. Clean the barrel and try your new ammo in it.

I have a S&W 29 with an 8 inch barrel. It will probable shoot that well in the right hands or a ransome rest but it won’t be me doing it…

I shot today with 6 different loads. Nothing was good, one load, a 200gr with 5gr of BE-86 was so bad it was funny. I didn’t measure it but I think it was a solid 7” 3 shot group. That’s all I bothered shooting with that load, shot the rest through the M29. I shot a group with the 265gr Hornady jacketed (a 3” group) and 240gr jacketed HP( about 1.5” group), both loads were Win 296.

I’ll try your steel wool routine because I’m more curios than anything to get this to shoot decent. I have plenty of 2400 and really have nothing to lose. Thanks

 

[BBerguson]

I did get some chamber cast metal right before I got sick this summer. I think I got it with this gun in mind but haven’t used it yet.

 

[BBerguson]

What alloy are you using
My Rossi 92 in 38/357 shoots great with a softer bullet. Like a bhn of 8/11. I had a Henry 44 that would shoot only soft at about 1400 fps. I hated that rifle. Sold it..

Pure wheel weights, lol pure… I have lead pipe that I believe to be pure. That’s worth a shot. I need to do some casting anyways for the 350 legend, I’ll cast some 44’s at the same time.

 

[Ian]

"Pure wheelwights"...Ha ha! Kind of a silly definition scientifically but completely valid to all of us here at the same time. I'm surprised the 200s shot so badly. The 240 jax/296 is the cluebird here, somehow.

 

[BBerguson]

"Pure wheelwights"...Ha ha! Kind of a silly definition scientifically but completely valid to all of us here at the same time. I'm surprised the 200s shot so badly. The 240 jax/296 is the cluebird here, somehow.

Yep, as pure as it gets! I’ve never cast a chamber before but I think that may tell me something too. Even before I do I‘m going see how far out I can seat a bullet. I suppose if the jump is long and the chamber if oversize enough the bullet could slam into a edge of the rifling really disrupting the bullet. It’s worth checking and playing around with seating depth. If this is happening it would be worse for the shorter 200’s,

You’re right, I think there is a clue staring me in the face with the 240’s. Both cast bullets are semi wadcutter. The 240gr HP’s aren’t and being copper jacketed shouldn’t be affected as much as the cast bullets. At least that’s my logical conclusion without having any proof…. I’ll do some more experimenting!

Thanks to all for their input. My son said “Sell it! I have no desire for a 44mag single shot rifle“. But, I’d be much happier figuring this out and then if I sell it, having a load that the new owner will know works.