It’s a nice little rifle but…
- Thread starter BBerguson
- Start date
BBerguson
Official Pennsyltuckian
Cast except for the 1 group each with 240gr HP and 265 flat point jacketed. I’ve shot .430 and .432.
Playing around with seating depth I’ve found :
(this was quickly done with 2 rounds.)
OAL in loading manual is 1.610
I was able to chamber one with a length of 1.824
1.856 would not chamber
1.824, when chambered in my M29 revolver sticks out of the cylinder. Didn’t measure with calipers, my guess was about 1/16“
I’m going to play with this some more and get the bullet to the edge of the rifling and then load some test rounds. Might be able to shoot them Wednesday.
Joshua
Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
A pound cast of your chamber will answer so many questions.
www.artfulbullet.com
Sometimes you find out things you don’t want to know. Like in my case I found out that in one of my rifles the throat diameter is so oversized in relation to my chamber, that I can’t load a bullet wide enough to fill the throat. Because a bullet that large in diameter just won’t chamber, or it will just chamber but there isn’t enough clearance for my brass to expand, pressures would rise, and my cases would rupture/fail.
But, when you know these things, fifty yard two inch groups make sense. Then it is an easier decision as to whether you live with the accuracy that the gun is capable of, you send it down the road. Otherwise you are just chasing your tail.
Article 2: How I Make Pound Casts
Disclaimer: The following information is the product of my own meandering experience and includes a few original ideas and concepts of my own and some that others have been kind to share with me, and is always subject to change as I learn more. It is in no way intended to be the last word, or...
www.artfulbullet.com
Sometimes you find out things you don’t want to know. Like in my case I found out that in one of my rifles the throat diameter is so oversized in relation to my chamber, that I can’t load a bullet wide enough to fill the throat. Because a bullet that large in diameter just won’t chamber, or it will just chamber but there isn’t enough clearance for my brass to expand, pressures would rise, and my cases would rupture/fail.
But, when you know these things, fifty yard two inch groups make sense. Then it is an easier decision as to whether you live with the accuracy that the gun is capable of, you send it down the road. Otherwise you are just chasing your tail.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Well said! It may never shoot good, but knowing WHY it won't might make you feel better at least.A pound cast of your chamber will answer so many questions.
Article 2: How I Make Pound Casts
Disclaimer: The following information is the product of my own meandering experience and includes a few original ideas and concepts of my own and some that others have been kind to share with me, and is always subject to change as I learn more. It is in no way intended to be the last word, or...
Sometimes you find out things you don’t want to know. Like in my case I found out that in one of my rifles the throat diameter is so oversized in relation to my chamber, that I can’t load a bullet wide enough to fill the throat. Because a bullet that large in diameter just won’t chamber, or it will just chamber but there isn’t enough clearance for my brass to expand, pressures would rise, and my cases would rupture/fail.
But, when you know these things, fifty yard two inch groups make sense. Then it is an easier decision as to whether you live with the accuracy that the gun is capable of, you send it down the road. Otherwise you are just chasing your tail.
BBerguson
Official Pennsyltuckian
I loaded 10 each of .430 and .432 seated far enough out to touch the rifling. OAL - 1.848. They don’t drop all the way, the action needs to be snapped shut. 8gr of BE-86 which has been a little better than most loads/powders. Hopefully I can shoot these tomorrow after work. Note that 1.610 is oal listed in Lyman reloading manual.
BBerguson
Official Pennsyltuckian
8grs of BE-86, 250gr (bullet in my avatar) 1st group is with bullets sized .430, 2nd group sized .432 with one flyer that really baffled me. Pretty sure it wasn’t me but can’t guarantee it. Both 7 shot groups, 1st 3 shots were sight in and 3 rounds in the .432 were seated at different lengths because these were my tests rounds trying to find the right seating depth. I’m not disappointed in these groups and have loaded 10 each with 7.5gr and 7gr, also 10 with 2400. Hope to shoot these on Sunday afternoon.
I might load some up with Unique and Herco if I get time Saturday night.
Kind of thinking I could use longer brass in this gun! Or maybe a bullet in the 300 gr range. Isn’t the 445 mag a longer 44 mag case?
Anyways, I know these aren’t great groups but better than before so I feel like I’m getting somewhere now.
I might load some up with Unique and Herco if I get time Saturday night.
Kind of thinking I could use longer brass in this gun! Or maybe a bullet in the 300 gr range. Isn’t the 445 mag a longer 44 mag case?
Anyways, I know these aren’t great groups but better than before so I feel like I’m getting somewhere now.
Attachments
That there is an affliction, Sir, for which there is no cure.
May as well embrace it.
I predict you'll fix it, get bored with it and THEN sell it.
Ian
Notorious member
Don't clean the barrel too well, maybe a quick swab at most. Stick around with the one powder and bullet and keep dialing in seating depth and charges and see what happens. Changing up a lot of stuff at once or not working with one thing enough to get a good feel for it will leave you chasing your tail.
Michael
Active Member. Uh/What
Good to see some progress.
A couple of other suggestions to try:
Take a dummy round and seat the bullet out to your earlier mentioned c.o.l. of 1.848 and drop in the chamber, make a note of how far out it sticks beyond the breach face and also measure the rim thickness. Seat the bullet deeper to the point where it should only stick out past the breach face about half the thickness of the rim and close the action, if it closes, great, if not, how much of the rim is sticking up, make a note of it. It may already be at that point.
Load up the batch(es) again of all the same c.o.l., when you get ready to shoot, rather than just snapping the action shut, crack it open but not all the way, only the point the case head comes off of the face of the frame, you do not want the extractor to engage and pull the case at all. Now close the again and shoot. Repeat.
What this does is take away any pressure between the receiver and the barrel.
If you forget to crack and re-close, make a note of where that shot lands. Or even try a group with cracking and one without and compare.
Looking forward to the results.
In reference to .445 cases, yes they are longer, but how long is you chamber? A case that is too long can get forced into the throat which in turns restricts or prevents the case mouth from opening up to release the bullet and/or essentially crimps the bullet in place with no where for the crimp to go. Not a good thing. NOE makes some chamber length gauges, could pick up one of them to measure how long you chamber actually is.
Again, nice groups!
A couple of other suggestions to try:
Take a dummy round and seat the bullet out to your earlier mentioned c.o.l. of 1.848 and drop in the chamber, make a note of how far out it sticks beyond the breach face and also measure the rim thickness. Seat the bullet deeper to the point where it should only stick out past the breach face about half the thickness of the rim and close the action, if it closes, great, if not, how much of the rim is sticking up, make a note of it. It may already be at that point.
Load up the batch(es) again of all the same c.o.l., when you get ready to shoot, rather than just snapping the action shut, crack it open but not all the way, only the point the case head comes off of the face of the frame, you do not want the extractor to engage and pull the case at all. Now close the again and shoot. Repeat.
What this does is take away any pressure between the receiver and the barrel.
If you forget to crack and re-close, make a note of where that shot lands. Or even try a group with cracking and one without and compare.
Looking forward to the results.
In reference to .445 cases, yes they are longer, but how long is you chamber? A case that is too long can get forced into the throat which in turns restricts or prevents the case mouth from opening up to release the bullet and/or essentially crimps the bullet in place with no where for the crimp to go. Not a good thing. NOE makes some chamber length gauges, could pick up one of them to measure how long you chamber actually is.
Again, nice groups!
fiver
Well-Known Member
445's are longer.
longer in the wallet too.
that doesn't seem to stop us though.
i had a old model Vaquero that i cut 454 casull cases down and used 453 diameter bullets in.
i don't know why, it's not a target gun by any stretch, but it did shoot a lot better that way.
now to offset that.
i tried a batch of 38-55 brass in my Marlin 375 to try and deal with it's throat.
that didn't help so much... LOL
after talking to ranch dog about the whole thing [which helped him out too since he was working on a bullet for it at the time] we worked out the nose shape necessary to deal with that cavern.
just throwin that out there as a possible alignment issue helper.
longer in the wallet too.
that doesn't seem to stop us though.
i had a old model Vaquero that i cut 454 casull cases down and used 453 diameter bullets in.
i don't know why, it's not a target gun by any stretch, but it did shoot a lot better that way.
now to offset that.
i tried a batch of 38-55 brass in my Marlin 375 to try and deal with it's throat.
that didn't help so much... LOL
after talking to ranch dog about the whole thing [which helped him out too since he was working on a bullet for it at the time] we worked out the nose shape necessary to deal with that cavern.
just throwin that out there as a possible alignment issue helper.
I have shot a begara 44mag.
factory ammo is 1" and less with a red dot At 50 yrds.
‘Next time out it was crap.
Tried cast With those nail polish bullets at 431" leaded the throat up and not great after a few shots.
I re-set his forend and now it sits properly and is even in tension.
His seems hard to open if you crack it shut.
‘It is a couple of thou over centre when locked up from new.
If you close the breach then realise the locking lug it opens as it should and shoots lights out.
I told him to go shoot several boxes of factory to help polish the throat and smooth it up a bit.
Shoot clean and then shoot some more.
it might shoot cast yet.
‘Did a deep clean and light lapp just to take some burrs off.
He did say the cast I loaded him hit about 1/2" to the left at 30 yrds and just decimated what he shot.
I think it is the throat geometry and crappy cast commercial pistol bullets that is it’s problem.
‘After the burrs and roughness settles down.
factory ammo is 1" and less with a red dot At 50 yrds.
‘Next time out it was crap.
Tried cast With those nail polish bullets at 431" leaded the throat up and not great after a few shots.
I re-set his forend and now it sits properly and is even in tension.
His seems hard to open if you crack it shut.
‘It is a couple of thou over centre when locked up from new.
If you close the breach then realise the locking lug it opens as it should and shoots lights out.
I told him to go shoot several boxes of factory to help polish the throat and smooth it up a bit.
Shoot clean and then shoot some more.
it might shoot cast yet.
‘Did a deep clean and light lapp just to take some burrs off.
He did say the cast I loaded him hit about 1/2" to the left at 30 yrds and just decimated what he shot.
I think it is the throat geometry and crappy cast commercial pistol bullets that is it’s problem.
‘After the burrs and roughness settles down.
Last edited:
Biggest issue I had with .433 bullets for my Marlin was the Hornady seater. The sliding sleeve they use was not happy with fat bullets and the bullet got slightly stuck in the sleeve and would be pulled out of the case when lowering the ram.
Made a new sleeve and all is fine. Tried to modify the original one but they are definitely hardened.
Made a new sleeve and all is fine. Tried to modify the original one but they are definitely hardened.