Lee shell holder and plate problem

Tomme boy

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
OK, I am about to throw ALL of my Lee equipment out into the street. I have been having an ongoing issue with the #4 shell holders and plate for the 4000 press. it started back when I got my 350 legend. I would ALWAYS have to tip the case forward to get it to go into the die so the mouth would not crush. And every once in a while it would crush the mouth when it goes into the powder die. It would fold over the back side of the mouth. I just got used to it and always pushed the case to go into the sizer.

Now onto what I am working on now. 380acp. It is doing the same thing as you need to push or tip the case in to get it into the sizer and the powder die. pic below.

HUghUJB.jpg


I ruined over 50 cases tonight trying to figure this out. I set it up on both of my 4000 presses. One is from @Ian that added two pins to align the shell carrier up better. And I set it up on the Lee Classic cast 4 hole turret. ALL the presses are doing the same thing. SO, it has to be the shell holders or plates. I took a RCBS shell holder, #10 and set the turret up again but this time using the rcbs shell holder.

It doe NOT crush anything. I don't have to tip the cases, nothing. Then I remember talking to another guy local that has the turret also. He was having the same issue but with 357mag. He got a different shell holder than the Lee one that came with his dies and his problem went away.

I have been talking with Lee through emails and they have had me measure a couple of things on the shell holders and they are very close to what the rcbs shell holder is. The rcbs is actually tighter than the lee by 0.001" so that should not matter as you have to tip it about 0.04" to get them into the dies.

And the other thing is all of my rifles are no where near as accurate as they were when I was only using my Rock Chucker. I think this misalignment is causing that. I am going to load some stuff back up on the RCBS press with some of the loads I have been having issues with in several of my 223 rifles and the 350 Legend.

So, has anyone else had a problem like this before? My 357 and 38 spec loads are not a problem on any of the 3 presses. 9mm on these presses don't have any issues either.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
If the one with the extra pins is crushing even the short .380 cases then my guess is the shellholders aren't machined deeply enough. Do you have to tip the case toward the center of the 4-hole plate to get them to go in? If so, there's your problem.
 
Tomme boy

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
yes, you have to tip them in. Whats weird is it does it with the regular shell holder too. They must have made them all wrong.
 
RBHarter

RBHarter

West Central AR
45 Colts with the LM it was only about 1/10 I don't think I've had any trouble like that with the shell holders . Other than them being cut a little too generous and pulling rims , 223 was the worst .
 
CWLONGSHOT

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Sorry Tomme. I have had many issues with Lee shell holders mostly the #4 and mostly with 223/350 300's tend ta be Ok. I think there spec cutting them is off on tight side and over pressure 556 & 350 expand the head enough to cause issues I have seen.

Maybe partial cheap brass issue contributing.

I switch to a Redding #10 and no more problems.

CW
 
462

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
I've a Lee #2 (.30-06, .45 ACP, etc.) that has enough sloping slop to it that the case rim will hit the die, if I'm under diligent.
 
Snakeoil

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
Chances that multiple shell holders are machined wrong seems slim to none to me. Since this only happens on one press, all indications point to the press. I'm not familiar with that model press, but assume it is some type of progressive since it uses a shell plate. My guess is there was something under the plate, the plate is the problem or some combination. Since the RCBS plate seemed to solve the problem, it could be confirmation that the plate is the issue. Or, when you swapped plates you removed whatever was causing the Lee plate to misalign. I would put the Lee plate back in to see if you still have the problem.

Is it possible for the Lee plates to distort with use? Since you have to tip the case forward to enter the die, it sounds like the plate is cupped. Easy enough to check on a flat surface like a piece of glass.

If it were mine, I'd call Lee.
 
W

Walks

Well-Known Member
When the Lee hand priming tool with the feed tray came out I tried it.
Same problem, the same shell holder for .45Colt & .44Mag just doesn't work. Wore out 2 of them, kept all friction points greased too.
Molds are generally OK, most of the time.
Buying anything Lee is a crap shoot.
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
Not just to stick up for LEE, but look at the bevel on the brass, ahead of the extractor cut.

Not with 380, but with 45 ACP, I have had a similar functionality problem and it turned out to be inconsistencies with the case (between brands). Seems everyone in the world made the stuff at the time and it wasn't all the same, even though it all functioned fine in the 45s I was shooting. This was with regular shell holders. I'm not sure I know what is used on the progressives.
 
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462

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
In my case, the problem is evident with at least two Lee turrets, and three presses, one of which is an RCBS
JR 3 and the other was an RCBS Rockchucker. I recall measuring the problem shellholder and another Lee #2, but have forgotten the vast differences between the numbers of the two.
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
I have one LEE hand-primer shell-holder which does not like SOME 223 brass. Either the extractor cut is too shallow in those cases or the LEE shell-holder is too tight. I've never measured, as it's too easy to find 223 brass (and I don't shoot it much) so I just set those cases aside. I don't remember the brand, but they're not some off-the-wall case - either commercial or US military.
 
JonB

JonB

Halcyon member
I have a bunch of Lee presses, dang near one of each flavor, and I have two of the model that I like best (cast 4 hole turret).
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I'm not gonna document all the little issues I've had to correct...but when you have to 'tip' a case with your finger, for the case to enter the Die, you need to look and see if the finger tipping is correcting a Ram/spring issue, or a poorly machined shell holder. Most of my Die sets are Lee, and some of them have a shell holder that isn't perfect. My solution was: I bought a a big set of Lyman shell holders.
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Regarding the other issue, I have a newer (rev. 3) Lee classic cast Iron single stage press that doesn't have the two piece Ram like the older versions have, the Ram is solid and not hollow and throws the primers out the side just like the challenger(which I hate)... I bought it for a dedicated press on my inverted mount for sizing boolits, so the primer disposal isn't an issue...and it was priced much cheaper or I wouldn't have bought it.
Anyway, the area of the Ram that is machined to hold the shell holder was sloppily machined, and with it's strong retention spring, it holds the bullet pusher (of a bullet sizing kit) at a slight angle "off of 90º" which isn't a problem with standard Lee pushers, but the longer pushers made by Keith will hit the die every time, the solution was to remove the retention spring and use some tape, now it works fine.
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The things we do to make Lee equipment shine, LOL.
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
JonB said:
...and with it's strong retention spring, it holds the bullet pusher (of a bullet sizing kit) at a slight angle "off of 90º" which isn't a problem with standard Lee pushers,...
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah, THAT!

An alternative to the over-powered shell-holder retention spring is to replace it with an o-ring.

This came up recently on this forum, but I'm running seven different ways right now and can't get to the shop to get the size I've been using. Effective and cheap, from Ace. Keep spares and maybe file/stone any burrs on the machining on t he ram which might chew up your o-ring.

Someone here had decided to try it recently, but I don't remember who. Maybe he can give a status report on how it's working for him. For me, it did make it easier to get every case to align and enter the dies easily. I believe my retention spring was all that was wrong with mine.
 
Tomme boy

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
@Snakeoil it is happening on 3 different presses not just one. 2 are progressive and one is a turret.

I think I might go down later and try setting the powder drop up on the rock chucker or the pacific single stage. if it does not crush anything it is the presses. I will try all 3 shell holders that are for the 380/223 rim. If it crushes on the Lee one then it will be the lee shell holder.
 
Snakeoil

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
Tomme boy said:
@Snakeoil it is happening on 3 different presses not just one. 2 are progressive and one is a turret.

I think I might go down later and try setting the powder drop up on the rock chucker or the pacific single stage. if it does not crush anything it is the presses. I will try all 3 shell holders that are for the 380/223 rim. If it crushes on the Lee one then it will be the lee shell holder.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I missed that you had set it up on another 4000.

It amazes me that a company would bother to produce something that does not function properly. I would understand it if it was stamped MADE IN CHINA, but it's not. I've always heard that Lee stuff was not the best but provided a good value for the money.

The only Lee equipment I own is a cheap O-press that I used to simply compress powder in my .45-70 cases when I was shooting BPCR. Did the job, but sure is flimsy. I have several sets of Lee dies. They have worked quite well for my purposes. Granted, I'm not loading benchrest ammo. I also have a Lee hand primer. One primer at a time just leaves a lot to be desired. I think it was my Dad's. He was always a shotgunner and I think this was leftover from a brief foray into reloading for his .243. I've never used it.

I'm a firm believer in you get what you pay for. If the hobby is new and you are not sure you will get deeply into it, then buy Lee stuff makes sense. But if you find that you are serious, then I think the money is better spent on other stuff.

I bought a Lyman furnace and the first time I used it, it shorted out and quit working. I could have sent it back and gotten a replacement. Nope. Sent it back and paid the difference for an RCBS furnace and it's been going strong ever since.

Hope you can get these presses sorted out, Tom. I know the frustration of having equipment that won't work as it should.
 
Tomme boy

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
Well using the powder drop and the rcbs on the pacific press almost stopped it. I was getting 1 in about 15 that would nick the case mouth. I took the expander out of the die and chucked it up in the lathe and put a steeper angle on the leading edge and polished it. It still would nick every once in a while.

So I took out the 9mm expander and put it in the 380 die. That stopped it all together on the single stage. I took the die back apart and there is hardly any difference between the two on the expansion part. The 9mm insert is just longer so I had to back it out a little.

Tomorrow I am going to set up the turret press again to try with the 9mm die and the rcbs shell holder.
 
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