Lee shell holder and plate problem

J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
RBHarter said:
Lee makes a tool for a job and it does the job . RCBS is worth the difference in cost ....... If it's what you have or can afford use it .
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Having grown up with RCBS, Lyman, Redding, Bair, etc. dies, I actually prefer LEE dies and have only recently sold my last set of Redding dies.

I'm not saying LEE is "better," but I appreciate their features a lot more than others'. Doesn't hurt that they cost a lot less, but that's not my motivation. My needs are different too though, as I've settled on a few cartridges and insist that all ammo made from one will function well in all chambers present. I'm done with fiddling with different neck sizing buttons, expanders, special case lengths, bullet sizers, etc., so this may not make sense to anyone else at all.

I've not had near the problems with LEE equipment that others have, though I have tuned a die part or two. Seriously, the one real problem I've had is the shell-holder retainer spring holding the shell-holder, or worse yet, the bullet sizing pusher off kilter. I had bullet sizing pushers rubbing dies all the time until I implemented the o-ring trick.

Not my idea. I got it from someone on the Handi-Rifle sub-forum on Graybeard's, back before Remington whacked the Handi-Rifle.

This is a Hillman part form Ace Hardware:
o-ring (Copy).jpg
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
Well, I just ran into a stinker myself.

Just twenty minutes ago, I was depriming some brass for my son in law's 300 BLK. A significant portion of the brass gave me fits getting into the shell holder and a fair bit of the issue was gnarly extractor mark on Hornady brass, but even those cases not chewed up were balky. The Norma brass was just fine.

I was using the LEE, #4 shell holder form my 222 Remington die set (more recent), and switched to the LEE, #4 shell holder from my 223 die set (older). The older shell holder worked just fine.

The two #4 shell holders were VERY different from one another. The older (90s) #4 was made nicer. The newer (less than ten years) #4 looked poorly made, sloppy work. The most recent LEE shell holders I've bought have been VERY nice. Maybe they took some heat for their shell holders and had to improve, but the design has changed at least three times, between the 90s and now.
 
RBHarter

RBHarter

West Central AR
The Lee thing for me is the final clean up . I've had probably a dozen die sets , I think maybe 3-4 on hand now , every one of them even the pre-owned sets had chips left in the vent holes or possibly burrs that abused necks and shoulders . I found them unsatisfactory for any even minor forming except for neck up where there was no shoulder bump .

I still have 45 S&W , 7.62 TOK , 40 , 460 S&W , 300 WSM , and 280 AI shortened. I don't have a 300 , 280 , or Tok .

The single failure of a Lee die was a sizer for 380 that after about 50 pieces started gouging cases . Turns out there was a radial crack in the carbide sizing ring . I guess I was sizing steel cases , you'd think a guy would notice something like that mixed in with WIN, FC , and PPU yellow brass . I found a steel set of RCBS or Lyman and gave the Lee set to a guy for.shiping being very specific about the dies .

If I get a Lee die for anything the first thing I do is a full disassembly and wash out making sure to clear the vent hole and caps . Then I slather the sizer with STP , because I haven't quite gotten a version of Darrs lube to work as a pre lube for them .

The moulds are just a fact of life to give a once over and break hard edges. Half to 25% of competition makes that acceptable. It doesn't make me all warm when I get 2 RB doubles of the same size months apart the are cut the same .380×.381 around the equator but only .370 around the date line . Not a problem if I were using it for 8,9,10 in a 3"12 ga but not so good when it's supposed to seal a .375 dia C&B chamber .......
I've run 1000s of bullets in their molds and made a couple of slightly unhappy used examples work well .
 
Tomme boy

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
Looking at the case dimensions of the 380acp and 223, the 380 has a 20° bevel on the case and the 223 has a 25.5° bevel. So the case would contact the shell holder at different heights because of the angle. And that is why the 223 case sits flat but the 380 is held up.

Does this sound right?
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
I don't have a 380 case handy, but the same thing applies to the 45 ACP and the '06 case family. The angle from the bottom of the extractor groove is very different. Yet, if someone were to account for this when designing the shell holder, either would/should fit the same shell holder just fine.

Might be the shell holder or might be the brass. Maybe both are in spec, but on opposite ends of the accpetable tolerances.

If I can find a 380 case in my case sample bin tomorrow, I'm going to try it in both #4s I used today.
 
Tomme boy

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
Found my other #4 shell plate for the 4000 press. It lets the case sit flat against the bottom. Soo, I set the press back up to try it. I have not run it yet, just enough to set the dies up. But it was going into the powder die without issue.

And before I set it up I measured the distance of the slots straight across from each other and this one was 0.0015" closer together. This was what Lee wanted me to measure. They also want me to send them all of my shell holders and plates so they can measure them against what the design is supposed to be.

I am going to load a few tonight to see how it goes. I have smashed more than 50 cases so far trying to figure this out. I still have about a thousand cases left to play with but I would rather not lose any more. I have already lost a bunch at the range. Our range is gravel so you lose some every time you go.
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
I didn't find a 380 case, but found more #4 shell holders. Did not have time to measure any.

Good luck sending them back. Brass is too precious these days to lose, regardless of how.
 
Tomme boy

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
Well I loaded up 200rnds. I smashed 2. Both times it was from me not closing the plastic gate on each station. This shell plate is made different. The top is ground completely flat. The other one it looks like it was too thick so they took a 7/8" end mill and ran it into each shell cut out on top to clearance the top. Thats why it is letting the case ride high and tip.

I have to call Lee tomorrow. I am tired of dealing with email.
 
Tomme boy

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
Got an email from Lee today, they are replacing the 2 shell holders and the one plate. All 3 were not right according to them. From the floor of the shell holder being too low to the rim being too high.

We will see if it helps.
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
Trying to get parts for an older lead pot - willing to buy them, not looking for a warranty thing.

Best they could do was to sell me a pot at a discount (still higher than "street-price"), but I had to return mine to get the deal." Shipping two ways and a not-so-discounted, discounted new pot....

Cheaper to go buy a new pot.

I really like the LEE stuff that I like, but am not a fan of their new attitude. Used to call and say I broke a decapping pin/rod and they'd send one.

I hope these work out for you. No reimbursement for the bent brass, aggravation or wasted time, so you've got something coming one way or another.
 
Tomme boy

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
Well brass is free for me. I get all of my brass from the local range or friends that are also brass whores. it is aggravating for sure. I actually got them to give me full price on a couple of molds that were total garbage and the shipping. They were the new at the time buckshot molds. They did not want the bad press from pics I had of their quality. The molds were not lined up. They were exactly the same size on each side but they were not lined up. One was about a 1/32" off staggered. The other was the same but one side was lower than the other. I really think they were set up pieces that got out.

I have said it a number of times. If there is a part or anything else out there that is messed up I will always be the one that gets it.
 
JonB

JonB

Halcyon member
Jeff H said:
Trying to get parts for an older lead pot - willing to buy them, not looking for a warranty thing.

Best they could do was to sell me a pot at a discount (still higher than "street-price"), but I had to return mine to get the deal." Shipping two ways and a not-so-discounted, discounted new pot....

Cheaper to go buy a new pot.

I really like the LEE stuff that I like, but am not a fan of their new attitude. Used to call and say I broke a decapping pin/rod and they'd send one.

I hope these work out for you. No reimbursement for the bent brass, aggravation or wasted time, so you've got something coming one way or another.
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I guess you haven't tried one of their licensed distributors?
I'm surprised they didn't tell you where to buy parts.
I don't know which pot you have?

But, if it's for one they no longer make, then it seems their practice it to discontinue making parts for repair.
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
JonB said:
.....

But, if it's for one they no longer make, then it seems their practice it to discontinue making parts for repair.
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A pot they no longer make, and it wasn't clear on the retailers' sites whether any of the parts worked for the old pot. Often, the "new model of something is more of a makeover and some parts still cross, but on these, apparently they don't. I contacted LEE to ask. First person had no idea, so I asked to speak with someone in engineering. He copped an attitude right off the bat.

@Tomme boy , keep buying LEE stuff. You're like the magnet in the oil drain plug that keeps the nasty stuff from getting to the rest of us.;)
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
JonB said:
The tranny pan on my toyota has three magnets...just sayin ;)
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Yeah, it kinda sucks that most of us who love Lee products know more than Lee's CS.
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Most of us who love LEE products probably own LEE products older than whoever is running the place!

Today, I placed an order for a hundred bucks' worth of little bits and pieces "spares" for my LEE stuff, just in case the place goes totally to the dogs. At least I'll already have stuff I might break or lose and won't have to worry about whether it's made like it used to be.
 
JonB

JonB

Halcyon member
Jeff H said:
Most of us who love LEE products probably own LEE products older than whoever is running the place!

Today, I placed an order for a hundred bucks' worth of little bits and pieces "spares" for my LEE stuff, just in case the place goes totally to the dogs. At least I'll already have stuff I might break or lose and won't have to worry about whether it's made like it used to be.
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I did that about 5 or 6 years ago. I bought enough stuff to refurb a 4-20 Pro pot that I got second hand...but it hasn't needed to be rebuild yet. I also ordered some of the "wear" parts for the Lee products I really like...like the Pro-Disk measure and safety Prime...and other stuff.
 
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