Lil' Gun (The propellant from hell?) in my .357mag.

[Michael]

At the risk of going sci-fi..... I'd bet it has something to do with chamber/pressure vessel shape and how the flame front and pressure wave(s) build .

Please do! I figure there has to be something with what you mention, ignition and burn charaturistics, etc.

 

[Snakeoil]

In 410 there is zero air space in fact charges are somewhat compressed and are a basically solid mass from some time between the primer ignition and the crimp starting to move.

That would have been my thought, too. Shotguns loads are all compressed powder charges. I'm no expert, but would suspect that there are very few similarities between what goes on inside a shotgun case and pistol/rifle case other than they both go bang.

 

[RicinYakima]

That would have been my thought, too. Shotguns loads are all compressed powder charges. I'm no expert, but would suspect that there are very few similarities between what goes on inside a shotgun case and pistol/rifle case other than they both go bang.

The chemistry of LG is specifically designed for 410 gauge hulls. Powder compression requires a hard and tough deterrent coatings on each grain and reach peak pressure at the right point to work self loading shotguns. Loading it in a metallic case is a whole different universe, which is why is works so well in the little cases @ magnum pistol pressures. And that was just a coincidence, not designed into it.

 

[ChestnutLouie]

On paper(books, magazines, not targets) Li’l Gun is the bee’s knees, the cat’s pajamas. It gets the highest velocity at the lowest pressure.
So based on those statistics, I bought 2 pounds to develop a load for hunting in my ‘92 Winchester 357 Magnum.

What I got might have been the highest velocity at the lowest pressure, might have even been accurate, but the heat, flash, noise and recoil took all the fun out of it. I found a load using 2400 that is satisfying and satisfactory.

Ed Harris described a load using 4.3 gr Bullseye and a Hunter’s Supply 190 gr CB at 1050fps that is accurate and fun to shoot. That big meplat really goes THWAK when it hits something.

Maybe some day I may discover a use for the Li’l Gun. Suggestions are welcomed.

I get very good results with Lil Gun in a 300BO using a cas checked Lee 180 grain cast bullet. So far so good with 32 H&R Magnum and a
100 grain Hornaday XTP. 158 grain Hornaday XTP, 357 Magnum using Lil Gun fired from my Henry Big Boy nets 1850fps

 

[Rockydoc]

I have 2 pounds of the stuff and would like to find some use for it but it seems to be good only in full power loads, which is where I don’t like it.
It would be good if it worked well in reduced loads.

 

[richhodg66]

Never used it, but hear it is all the rage in .22 Hornet. I need to work more with Hornets, but I got into them with very specific parameters in mind and met them with Bullseye and 2400.

Curious to hear about you guys loading .410. I have a few .410s now, oddly. My little "walk to the mail box and carry in my lap when mowing" gun is a Rossi "Tuffy" snake charmer kind of thing. I need to shoot it more and have some brass hulls I need to learn to load.

 

[Glaciers]

I’ve heard a fair amount of mixed stories about LG that I just stayed away from it. There’s other powders on the shelf that will do the job. The little advantage LG may have in one cartridge over another powder is not worth the potential headaches.
Don’t load for shotguns.

 

[JonB]

Never used it, but hear it is all the rage in .22 Hornet. I need to work more with Hornets, but I got into them with very specific parameters in mind and met them with Bullseye and 2400.

Curious to hear about you guys loading .410. I have a few .410s now, oddly. My little "walk to the mail box and carry in my lap when mowing" gun is a Rossi "Tuffy" snake charmer kind of thing. I need to shoot it more and have some brass hulls I need to learn to load.

Yep, 22 Hornet, full speed loads pushing Jacketed. Other powders are better for slower cast loads.

 

[RicinYakima]

Yep, 22 Hornet, full speed loads pushing Jacketed. Other powders are better for slower cast loads.

And a pound will last about 530 reloads.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Never used it, but hear it is all the rage in .22 Hornet. I need to work more with Hornets, but I got into them with very specific parameters in mind and met them with Bullseye and 2400.

Curious to hear about you guys loading .410. I have a few .410s now, oddly. My little "walk to the mail box and carry in my lap when mowing" gun is a Rossi "Tuffy" snake charmer kind of thing. I need to shoot it more and have some brass hulls I need to learn to load.

I cast both .390 & .395 Balls too and use them similarly with GREAT effect! My load with Lil-gun has more projectile
Weight then factory and more velocity as well as far far better accuracy. Im inside 6-7" @ 50 yards.

 

[richhodg66]

Interesting, but I have no desire for anything bigger than #6 shot in .410. That little Tuffy is a neat gun, but its acquisition was me being honest with myself that I wasn't gonna be good enough to hit small and fleeting varmints with a pistol.

I also have a really clean Stevens 94 I lucked into cheap a while back. I will get it out after squirrels eventually.

 

[nanuk]

Reading through the above experiences with Lil'Gun has me wondering, what is it about it that allows it to work so well in the .410 which it was originally developed for, and as a serendipitous option in the 22 Hornet. Neither of which are what could be called high pressure, especially the .410.

Just some random thoughts, and I could be completely wrong by a large margin, even worse than a w.a.g. or passing gas in a elevator. Perhaps the small charge weights of both rounds coupled with what could be considered to be a lot primer force in relationship to the small powder charges, think about larger rounds with higher charge weights. Some of the discussion mentions sandblasting revolver throats (by un-burnt powder ? ). Ok, more powder, less overall force from the primer in relationship to the powder charge. In looking at the load data, it's peak performance in rifle and pistol rounds has a relatively narrow range.

It would seem, at least in my mind, there is something doesn't work, what variable is out of wack, what are we all missing, what is the common variable or denominator that gets it to work well where it does, and gives everyone fits the rest of the time. Light crimp, heavy crimp, no crimp, does it need a faster, more forceful ignition i.e. SRM in a .357, heavier bullets to limit case volume, or some combination of one or more of the above. I could try to pull more ideas out of my bumm, but I'm tired and if I didn't write this down, I will have a hard time getting to sleep thinking about it.

I have no idea, just seems there is specific reason why it works when it does, what needs to adjusted to broaden it's potential and get it to work better where it's being a PITA. I have not tinkered with plugging it into QuickLoad, have fun, I got nuthin.

When I read about LG and the problems folks have had through the years, I think I see a trend.
When I read about LG and the successes folks have had through the years, I think I see a trend.

This is not unlike other powder/cartridge combinations

some of what I see:
LG needs pressure to burn well
to get there, smaller case, higher load density, heavy for caliber bullet (or payload in the case of shot shells), and good bullet pull.
This is, I think, why LG is appropriate in very small rifle cases, and the .410 shotgun.
Used with heavy bullets, good neck tension/crimp, and full loads, it excels.
Think if it as a specialized powder, similar to LVR, which needs higher pressure parameters to work well.

My Hornet has a 1/16" ROT, and a 26" barrel. for top velocity with accuracy, LG certainly has a LOT going for it

I like CW have sworn it off. I will not use it anymore and I have about 8lbs of it. .... And I don't load for 410.

I sure wish I lived next door to Tomme boy

 

[Maven]

In reviewing my post #1 about Lil' Gun in the .357mag., I realize I didn't post any pics. of the target. Here it is with 5.6gr. Unique v. 12gr. Lil' Gun in both the Dan Wesson (DW) and Ruger BH revolvers.

 

[dale2242]

It worked fine for me when I tried it in heavy 357 and 44 Mag loads.