MiHec 30 Sil brass four cavity solid

[45 2.1]

Bob, I have 12 brass moulds and the MP 30 sil is the only one that gave me fits. Joe and Tomme also had fits as you'll recall, we had this discussion.

Joe did the same thing the rest of are doing now. He bet me a rifle that I would have trouble casting with it...... I didn't take his rifle though (which I could have done as I had no trouble and have cast with it quite a few times now), but I did tell him what he was doing wrong (basically the same as I posted above). Since then he has cast a few buckets full of them with no trouble and he is shooting some exceptional groups with them (ask him, he'll admit he was wrong). The mold does not have square lube grooves, they have grooves with a 15 degree draft per side.... the same as any other MP mold I've did that has squareish grooves. The problem you guys are having is too much heat in the mold (yep, it's a big hunk of brass that gets hot and doesn't cool nearly as fast as it needs to).... use a fan to cool the mold with the lead and sprue on it and turn the pot temperature down. The key is to have the sprue freeze in 4 seconds or less after you stop pouring.... three seconds is better with this mold. You guys with a infrared thermometer should check the temps out.

 

[HARRYMPOPE]

My Eagan,old west and nei brass molds do not stick when hot.I'm talking a dozen brass molds The one brasd mihec I had gave me fits.
The square groove is a silly design.

 

[Ian]

Joe did the same thing the rest of are doing now. He bet me a rifle that I would have trouble casting with it...... I didn't take his rifle though (which I could have done as I had no trouble and have cast with it quite a few times now), but I did tell him what he was doing wrong (basically the same as I posted above). Since then he has cast a few buckets full of them with no trouble and he is shooting some exceptional groups with them (ask him, he'll admit he was wrong). The mold does not have square lube grooves, they have grooves with a 15 degree draft per side.... the same as any other MP mold I've did that has squareish grooves. The problem you guys are having is too much heat in the mold (yep, it's a big hunk of brass that gets hot and doesn't cool nearly as fast as it needs to).... use a fan to cool the mold with the lead and sprue on it and turn the pot temperature down. The key is to have the sprue freeze in 4 seconds or less after you stop pouring.... three seconds is better with this mold. You guys with a infrared thermometer should check the temps out.

I believe if you check with Joe you'll find he's been casting with THE REPLACEMENT that Miha sent him. I'm aware of his new-found casting technique, he told me all about it. BTDT long ago because I'm not a stubborn as he is. I've run the gamut of technique with the "square" grooves and they are special-needs children that I don't have time to adopt, I don't care how well they shoot (and they DO shoot once a person spends several years learning how when it could have been explained in about three sentences).

3-5 second sprue freeze is where I usually cast with any mould, and yes, I use a fan on the sprue. Long pause after cutting the sprue helps the shuck and limits the little nicks on the edges of the driving bands, but 15 degrees of draft isn't enough to make me happy. Some of those 30 Sil moulds were defective, plain and simple, the depth variance of the cavities that was the main cause of the sticking could be easily measured. No need to deny it or try to defend Miha, he took care of his end of the deal right away and in a satisfactory manner. The design, well, it's been an issue since BRP ceased to exist.

 

[JonB]

I did some casting today.

I'm glad I had all the info before casting with this. The first thing I did was rub the sharp feeling cavity edges with a oak wood stick to remove any loose burrs. Then a thorough cleaning with dish soap and hot water and toothbrush. Then a couple of Heat cycles on the hot plate, before I mounted the handles.

I used some alloy I got at the gunshow, so I could confirm the ingots were COWW as I was told by the old timer, that I bought them from, I know him and have traded with before, but he hasn't cast since the 1980s and his memory is weak...and they seemed harder than COWW. I measured an air cooled bullet for hardness 1 hour after it was cast, 13.4 BHN via Lee tester.

The cavities were very sticky to begin with. Mostly, I used MY technique of "picking" the bullets out of the mold, using a sharp screwdriver poked into the sprue cut area. I had the PID set to 700º. It seemed like the mold wanted to be hotter, but I didn't want to get any tinning. After casting about 100 bullets, the mold would drop them with one or two sharp blows, stickier than I like, but a huge improvement from the first few pours. cull rate was about 50%. The bottom photo shows culls on the left side, mostly I tried to face up the flaw, so the camera would catch them. The keeper bullets are on the right.

OK, the stats:
they measure perfect round (as perfect as I can measure)
bottom band was .313
top band also .313
Nose tapers from .313 to .299 near Ojive
GC shank tapers from .288 to .290
weights for bullets from each cavity (of last pour, where I had 4 keepers, which was truely the last pour)
168.4
168.3
168.4
168.5
I have a variety of GC's in 30 cal
Popcan GC made with patmarlins fit nicely.
.009 alum GC made with patmarlins wouldn't snap on with only finger power
Lyman brass slip-on wouldn't slip on with only finger power
Hornady copper, it snapped on firmly, quite nicely but not easily, but from what Ian said, I was worried ti would be impossible without tooling. I am confident these will size and crimp on squarely with the lyman 45, the four weight samples have Hornady GC's snapped on in bottom photo.

 

[Ian]

Rich alloy, typical of older WW. Don't be surprised if they make .314" before they've finished aging. Mine come out about 173.4 on average with 50/50.

It's possible to get the Hornady checks on there, but they have to be carefully seated in a seperate, pre-sizing operation. At least that's what I had to do. They'll fool you into thinking they're on all the way, then when you put them through the Lyman die they back off when crimping. Maybe my die has too abrupt of a taper, IDK. If you make your own checks this won't be too much of an issue.

 

[Brad]

I made a tool to flair the Gator checks I use. Without the flair the checks shave lead on seating or go on crooked. Flavored checks go on easily and crimp on square.

 

[Ian]

What flavor?

 

[Brad]

Copper. Somewhere between a tuiti fruity and mango. My wife doesn't care for the flavor but my guns sure do. Must be an acquired taste.

I hope to someday learn to cast properly so I don't need to flavor my checks.

 

[JonB]

I "had" a 30 cal. patmarlins checkmaker. and that's why I have some GC of various materials, included by not mentioned is also some thick copper checks made from .016" Cu sheeting. I sold that 30 cal checkmaker. I still have the 41PB and 44PB patmarlins checkmaker.

Back to this MP mold and it's bullets, I have no problem "seating" a GC fully on a lyman 45 with my homemade "swingaway" seater plate, but that only works well, if I can snap on the GC onto the shank, even if it is just getting started...and doesn't shave alloy like Brad's flavored GC's

 

[JonB]

Also, these really have a deep Lube groove

 

[Brad]

Jon and Ian, I can whip up a flair tool and send it your way if interested. A light tap of a hammer and the checks slip right on. PM me an address and I will get it shipped ASAP, no charge.
Rick mentioned the idea and after using it I am sold on the idea. No more shaved check shanks for me.

 

[Rick]

Or crooked checks. If the check isn't completely square to the bullet think freeze frame photography, that instant when one side of the check is still contacting the crown and the opposite side of the bullet is free of the crown AND there is still pressure behind the bullet. Takes very little imagination to see the next frame of the video with the bullet canting.

 

[fiver]

you'd have to design a J cutter.
I'm thinking the blocks got tilted or were slightly off center [twisted] when they were cut.

 

[45 2.1]

Also, these really have a deep Lube groove Yep Jon, they do. When you push them past 2,700 fps, it needs that much lube. The bullet was conceived with the idea of speed with accuracy.

On the subject of squarish lube grooves, I don't think Elmer Keith would agree with George..... along with me also.

All I've done is post how I cast these 30 Sils along with some pertinent information...... it didn't matter whether it was a BRP or MP mold, both men had the same drawing specs, one made the mold out of aluminum and the other out of brass..... both did a credible job considering what you read about all makers of molds. Each material has it's pluses and faults dependent on what the maker or caster does. How you cast and out of what is your own business. Choose wisely!

 

[Rick]

Happy birthday 45 2.1. 62 years old and counting.

 

[Phil]

Happy birthday 45 2.1. 62 years old and counting.

Ah, a young buck.

 

[HARRYMPOPE]

Well Elmer keith was dealing with some pretty poor lubes in his day. I have seen people shooting bullets in head to head cba matches at that velocity with standard rounded grooves and be competitive..Pat Iffland did it almost 20 years ago.as well as a fellow in the unrestricted pistol cba class.and I think won a title 10 or so years back.
Merrill Martin played with lube dams in grooves and such way back when.I don't think it panned out but I can't remember.I was at his shop and saw the apparatus though.He was odd!

 

[45 2.1]

Yep, old enough to draw SS funds.......... a young buck.... not that's noticeable, it's what you did with the time and the mileage you put on the ole body.........Hahaha.

George.... I haven't shot a CBA match in probably 25 years and don't intend to again since they have absolutely no matches anywhere close to my interests. I've been involved with more interesting pursuits since then. I also have no interests in high viscosity lubes and their attendant problems. Independent research and testing have told me more than all the information I've read from periodicals, including "The Fouling Shot", published since about 1880 to the present though I thought Merrill's articles were very good myself. The CBA doesn't represent the sum total of all cast shooters though. A lot of the high velocity craze happened post WW2 and continued on afterward.

 

[Winelover]

I too have that mold. It is, at times, a bit balky at releasing bullets. Even to the point of taking it over to Rick's place and see what he thought. I bottom pour and he ladle casts and didn't experience any major sticking issues. "Pouring heat" must make a difference. We discussed having Eric alter the grooves but I'm not sure he will do that sort of modification, since he recently quit altering bands. IIRC.

I use the 180 SIL in my AR-10 with satisfactory results but still pursuing that elusive 10 shot, 1MOA, 100 yard group. Come close, but one shot always is the spoiler. I lent the mold to Rick, to cast some for his M1A but I kind of doubt he's gotten around to it, as yet.

 

[Rick]

I think Erik is doing driving bands again, anyone interested in having that done should contact him to make sure.