My RCBS "Pro Melt" Lead Pot Story...
- Thread starter seagiant
- Start date
seagiant
Member
Hi,
Here is a pic of my Temper Oven I made from a Toaster Oven...
Installed extra insulation inside around the casing and straight wired the Heater Elements.
The PID keeps the Temp + or - 10 degrees.
Also a pic of the Kitchen Utility Knives I like to forge.
This one is made using an old Nicholson File.
Just sayin, getting good use from my casting PID!
Here is a pic of my Temper Oven I made from a Toaster Oven...
Installed extra insulation inside around the casing and straight wired the Heater Elements.
The PID keeps the Temp + or - 10 degrees.
Also a pic of the Kitchen Utility Knives I like to forge.
This one is made using an old Nicholson File.
Just sayin, getting good use from my casting PID!
I built a PID controller system for my pot years ago. Since I was designing and building process heating control systems at the time, it made more sense than spending 50 bucks on a thermometer. I had controllers on hand - stuff which had been returned under warranty or something someone burned up the output on in the shop. Dug them out of the trash and used them to walk people from across the globe through setting one up over the phone in the middle of the night. Some minor repairs and they worked. Had all the other stuff handy as well, so, why not?
Since I rarely get a chance to actually focus on something for more than ten minutes at a time, it's been very handy. Started using a hotplate for the same reason. Have to go find a dog? Set the mould on the hot plate and go look. Need to rescue a cat, add softener to the was, see what the commotion is back of the house,... set the mould on the hotplate and go do.
A few years ago, I actually went online and BOUGHT some parts to set up both the pot and my pizza oven for PC. Bought the pizza oven years ago to form Kydex. I've got a few spare controllers left and was thinking about getting a bigger box and making it a dual-controller to control the hotplate too.
Necessary? No, but it was convenient for me and pretty much free, except for rescuing a few controllers and fixing them.
I cast sort of inside - in my garage, which is WELL ventilated, meaning very hot in the summer and very cold in the winter. I cast when ity's just too damned ugly out to do anything else - usually when it's well below freezing, blowing and snowing. I dress for the occasion and point a Big-Buddy propane heater at my butt and cast as long as I can. An hour is good, Two is a gift. I leave everything set up and steal an hour another day and another if I can get away with it.
Last winter, I never got the chance, but the winter before, I was able to get out there several times and made a big pile of bullets. I just cast and cast - whatever mould I haven't cast with lately.
It may be perfectly fine, but I'd personally avoid the pots with the integral PID controllers. You get stuck with the controller the manufacturer chose and if the controller goes bad, the pot is no good. If the pot goes bad, the controller is useless. A separate controller leaves yoiu many more options and is also not as close to the heat. Electronics don't always appreciate heat and those controllers look awfully close to the heat source to me. Like I said, they may be just fine.
Since I rarely get a chance to actually focus on something for more than ten minutes at a time, it's been very handy. Started using a hotplate for the same reason. Have to go find a dog? Set the mould on the hot plate and go look. Need to rescue a cat, add softener to the was, see what the commotion is back of the house,... set the mould on the hotplate and go do.
A few years ago, I actually went online and BOUGHT some parts to set up both the pot and my pizza oven for PC. Bought the pizza oven years ago to form Kydex. I've got a few spare controllers left and was thinking about getting a bigger box and making it a dual-controller to control the hotplate too.
Necessary? No, but it was convenient for me and pretty much free, except for rescuing a few controllers and fixing them.
I cast sort of inside - in my garage, which is WELL ventilated, meaning very hot in the summer and very cold in the winter. I cast when ity's just too damned ugly out to do anything else - usually when it's well below freezing, blowing and snowing. I dress for the occasion and point a Big-Buddy propane heater at my butt and cast as long as I can. An hour is good, Two is a gift. I leave everything set up and steal an hour another day and another if I can get away with it.
Last winter, I never got the chance, but the winter before, I was able to get out there several times and made a big pile of bullets. I just cast and cast - whatever mould I haven't cast with lately.
It may be perfectly fine, but I'd personally avoid the pots with the integral PID controllers. You get stuck with the controller the manufacturer chose and if the controller goes bad, the pot is no good. If the pot goes bad, the controller is useless. A separate controller leaves yoiu many more options and is also not as close to the heat. Electronics don't always appreciate heat and those controllers look awfully close to the heat source to me. Like I said, they may be just fine.
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
That's a really nice knife!
I made a dual PID. One side runs the furnace, the other can be used for either controlling my pre-heat hotplate or monitoring my mold temp. It's instructive to watch the swings in mold temp as it's filled and emptied. And very instructive to see bullet quality and fillout vs mold temp. I think the mold temp is every bit as important as the alloy temp.
I could get by without a PID but it would take me a lot longer to get dialed into the sweet spot of furnace temp and proper cadence to get the right mold temp for good bullets.
I made a dual PID. One side runs the furnace, the other can be used for either controlling my pre-heat hotplate or monitoring my mold temp. It's instructive to watch the swings in mold temp as it's filled and emptied. And very instructive to see bullet quality and fillout vs mold temp. I think the mold temp is every bit as important as the alloy temp.
I could get by without a PID but it would take me a lot longer to get dialed into the sweet spot of furnace temp and proper cadence to get the right mold temp for good bullets.
Somehow I messed the quote up but KeithB said "And very instructive to see bullet quality and fillout vs mold temp. I think the mold temp is every bit as important as the alloy temp."
I won't claim to be the world's best bullet caster but from what I've noticed when a mould comes up to its proper temperature all the other variables seem to come together.
I won't claim to be the world's best bullet caster but from what I've noticed when a mould comes up to its proper temperature all the other variables seem to come together.
More important, considerably so. Mold temp is the dirty dark secret to consistency, great fill out and uniform bullet weights. Pot temp held at 700-725 degrees is all that is needed for most all bullet alloys.
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
Using a hotplate to preheat the mold to the proper temp cuts down a lot on how many pours you have to make to get good bullets. I can often get good bullets on the second or third pour if the mold is preheated. And I think some of that is a surface interaction of some sort.
I’m not going tell anybody what technology to use for almost any endeavor. And casting is an endeavor that can be pursued in a very low tech to a very high tech way. If you’re happy with or cash limited or have to travel light and so you cast with the most basic equipment so be it. You’re a caster, your methods are not my business. If you shoot 100 rounds a year and you buy $5k of automated casting equipment I may have an opinion but again not my business.
That said, one of the most useful pieces of kit I use for casting is a PID. Saves me a lot of time getting a session started and is IMHO more accurate than most analog thermometers. And with multiple uses.
I’m not going tell anybody what technology to use for almost any endeavor. And casting is an endeavor that can be pursued in a very low tech to a very high tech way. If you’re happy with or cash limited or have to travel light and so you cast with the most basic equipment so be it. You’re a caster, your methods are not my business. If you shoot 100 rounds a year and you buy $5k of automated casting equipment I may have an opinion but again not my business.
That said, one of the most useful pieces of kit I use for casting is a PID. Saves me a lot of time getting a session started and is IMHO more accurate than most analog thermometers. And with multiple uses.
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
I could never see the need for a PID.
Like I said in the other post. I cast as a getaway.
So I just stick a thermometer in it and watch the temp. Then check my mould temp with a temp. gun. My 20 lb 110 Lee climbs pretty slow, so. Add lead sprews if the temp rises more then 5 or 10 degrees. I enjoy the direct interaction.
Only time I ever had an issue with pot temp was with a 5 gang mould running .224 bullets. But then again everything is an issue when making multiple smalls.
Like I said in the other post. I cast as a getaway.
So I just stick a thermometer in it and watch the temp. Then check my mould temp with a temp. gun. My 20 lb 110 Lee climbs pretty slow, so. Add lead sprews if the temp rises more then 5 or 10 degrees. I enjoy the direct interaction.
Only time I ever had an issue with pot temp was with a 5 gang mould running .224 bullets. But then again everything is an issue when making multiple smalls.
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CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
The biggest improvement to my casting enjoyment was the addition of a HOT PLATE.
The biggest improvement of the quality of my bullets was a PID.
Required? NO, but, very very useful. Unfortunately not realized until you see for your self AFTER you buy one...
CW
The biggest improvement of the quality of my bullets was a PID.
Required? NO, but, very very useful. Unfortunately not realized until you see for your self AFTER you buy one...
CW
seagiant
Member
Hi,
Thanks, simple Kitchen Knife, but most of the work goes into the blade.
Not to get to far off the Reservation, but...
The blade is forged which refines the grain structure by Hammer, annealed, ground, and then Thermo Cycled 3 times...
This shrinks the grain even further and is then differential quenched (hard edge-soft back) at critical temp, retaining the structure and max hardness.
Then into the HT Oven to temper back to 58 RC Hardness.
Hard enough to stay sharp but soft enough to quickly resharpen.
The difference between my knives and something from a store is quite amazing in use.
Here is another I made for myself I use everyday, with Alabama farm cut Red Oak and Loveless Bolts on the handle.
Another File Knife!
seagiant
Member
Hi,
Yep, I resisted the PID Upgrade for years, and finally could not take hearing, how better everything was with them, and made one.
One thing is for sure, don't have to wonder about what, the REAL Temp of the Lead is with one!
Been using a Hot Plate for awhile now!
I think that so many years of casting with iron moulds that once I started using aluminum, I started second-guessing and being paranoid about getting the mould too hot. There were many naysayers gibbering about how easy it would be to warp aluminum, especially if unevenly heated, like dipping a corner into the alloy to heat the mould.
When I was casting with iron exclusively, I never thought about that. This ended up causing me to doubt aluminum moulds, because many of them gave me fits - because in the back of my mind, I was concerned about getting them too hot and warping them. Reality sunk its teeth into my backside hard when I was SO frustrated with a "junk" LEE mould (what many experts said) and decided to just abuse the snot out of it out of pure spite and hate - just to wreck that blasted POS!
I started casting with it as fast as I could and hit a point where I was SURE it was too hot and all the sudden bullets started coming out really nice.
Hmmmmm.
That was a long time ago. I stuck a thermocouple in a cavity of an aluminum mould once it started casting well and shuddered when I saw 400 F! Well, that's what it takes. I only added a hotplate a couple years ago. After 60, a "couple years" is probably actually TEN, but I started monitoring the block temp on the hotplate and, sure enough, if I am not at 400F, +/- about 5, I'm not casting perfect bullets.
So, yeah, that hotplate thing was a big improvement to my efficiency. No guessing, no waiting, no casting until they start coming out right. Usually, I throw one pour or maybe two out when I start with an aluminum mould off the hotplate. Usually, those rejects are from me getting used to how long it takes to fill a cavity and getting my timing right to move the the next one or not spilling into the next one, etc.
That speaks volumes. Why did I get the Magma with the PID? I had three lead thermometers, RCBS, Lyman and Tru-Tell all in the pot at the same time and could not tell within 80-90 degrees what the alloy temp was, which one was right, or . . . None of them. That was enough for me. Most of the lead thermometers regardless of the brand name on them are made by Tru-Tell.
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
My line of thinking is.
We use PIDs at work. They have to be gas Calibrated Every 12 months with new bi metal probes. They have usually drifted 50 degrees or more.
How is that any better then using a mechanical thermometer? It can't see any issue even if the thermometer is not accurate. As long as the inaccuracy is consistent. Then that is fine. If it's telling me 710 degrees at 740 degrees ever time, fine.
I keep it at what ever temp by that thermometer that produces good bullets with that alloy. Using the same thermometer every time. Unless I shock it or drop it.
Then I am going to get good bullets.
Just like the rule of using the same tape measure start to finish on a project. Or calibrating all tape measures to a standard rule that stays it the shop.
The only sure way to have accurate measure. Spend the 2 or 3 grand and get a calibrated mercury or gas Rheostat. Like they calibrate PID's with.
The only real reason I can see using a PID would be to take some of the human interaction out of the process. Then yes.
We use PIDs at work. They have to be gas Calibrated Every 12 months with new bi metal probes. They have usually drifted 50 degrees or more.
How is that any better then using a mechanical thermometer? It can't see any issue even if the thermometer is not accurate. As long as the inaccuracy is consistent. Then that is fine. If it's telling me 710 degrees at 740 degrees ever time, fine.
I keep it at what ever temp by that thermometer that produces good bullets with that alloy. Using the same thermometer every time. Unless I shock it or drop it.
Then I am going to get good bullets.
Just like the rule of using the same tape measure start to finish on a project. Or calibrating all tape measures to a standard rule that stays it the shop.
The only sure way to have accurate measure. Spend the 2 or 3 grand and get a calibrated mercury or gas Rheostat. Like they calibrate PID's with.
The only real reason I can see using a PID would be to take some of the human interaction out of the process. Then yes.
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Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Ya never know, I have been swayed on other things.Just a guess but I'm thinking that possibly a PID is not for Mitty.
Why we bother to have these discussions.
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