New Accurate Mold Arrived

[Jeff H]

I'm no expert for sure. But I've cast enough bullets to at least think I know what I am doing....

I get that and believe it. I'm not questioning your skill, experience or observations at all. I'm empathizing, which is of absolutely NO help, but acknowledging that if a skilled caster, such as yourself, with mould in-hand is a bit flummoxed, I'm sure I would be too.

Which circles back to my point that some new moulds make me question whether I have ANY clue as to what I'm doing with a casting pot to begin with. I've been casting since the early seventies, and USUALLY think I have a fair handle on it, but once in a while, a new mould will humble me very thoroughly.

One thing, which I have no scientific explanation for, is that when I DO get a mould like that, it usually hits a crescendo, wherein I cast like a manic with it for an hour, toss everything back in the pot, put the mould away and GIVE UP. Then, I get it back out one day and damned thing is a perfect angel! I suppose it's a bit like breaking a wild horse - hang on for the ride. It will eventually subside, but it WILL make you go through the whole gamut of aggravation and frustration.

NO, I'm not a cowboy. When I was six years old, a couple cowboy cousins hoisted my skinny little butt onto an unbroken horse (no saddle) they'd led home and it took off. The ONLY reason it didn't throw me was that I knew I'd die if it did, so I HUNG ON. By the time the horse settled down and they caught up, they were poopin' bricks, knowing they'd die at the hands of my mother if I died from their stunt. May sound funny, but every time I get a mould like that, I remember that day.

 

[Snakeoil]

I just have not had any luck with bottom pour.
I've used a ladle since 1967.

Ben

Well, I understand that position. I have a friend that only uses a ladle. He will never even own a bottom pour furnace. I always ladled the bullets when I was making my 530 gr Paul Jones postell for my .45-70. I tried to bottom pour with that big bullet and no matter how hot I ran the alloy, the bullets always looked like a silver shar-pei. But when I moved to a .30 cal rifle, I went to bottom pouring with a 4-cavity mold and my hatred for casting disappeared. Another vote for bottom pouring was from my late friend Adrian. He always bottom poured his .45-70 bullets and they were good enough for him to take 1st place in the senior division at Raton back in the 90's.

But I digress. I took your advice one step at a time. And this time I paid closer attention to what was going on. First, I bumped up the temp setting on the pot. I have a mark for the old rheostat knob because the scale on the knob is more like a guess. So, I upped the temp to assure that the alloy got to 700F. The mold was on the hotplate the entire time the pot came to temp and was about 280F when I started to cast.

First bullets all filled out, but had some wrinkles. That's normal. I kept casting and after about 2 dozen or so bullets, I started to get bases that did not fill out. I mean no base at all or a paritial base. Yet all had hardened puddles on top. I kept casting and it kept happening. Sometimes I'd get 4 decent bullets and next cast 1 or 2 bad bases. So, then I backed off the sprue plate screw about 1/4 turn. Then next cast produced 4 good bullets. I kept casting and continued success. So, I backed off another 1/8 turn and continued to cast. Never got another incomplete base. I did get a few with rounded corners, but that happens. May have to back off the sprue plate screw a bit more. It was getting late so I called it a night. Probably cast 100 bullets or so, did not count them.

Came upstairs and sent off an email to Tom, first with my apologies. I told him basically the same story I just told here and that I would cast with the mold and if I ran into any problems, I would reach out to him for guidance. I told him I probably needed to learn the personality of this mold.

You know, I did go out and get a haircut between the first casting session and the second. I got all my hair cut off for the summer. Now I look like a Volkswagen with both doors open. Maybe that was the trick that pleased the casting gods.

So, thanks for the help, gentlemen, especially you, Ben. I was not happy about this, but kept telling myself that the mold was 2 weeks early so I should view this as a good thing because it would probably be worse if it happened after I had waited 6 weeks. But I'm happy now. Hope to get to throw a few of these downrange this week. Now I have to start the load development process again. Oh well, that's always a learning experience.

Thanks again!

 

[Ben]

Keep in mind that old IDEAL moulds had zero vent lines.
They cast beautiful bullets.
Do you own a ladle ?
I'm sitting here wondering if a ladle FULL of HOT alloy sitting on the sprue hole for about 3 - 4 seconds wouldn't solve your fill out problems ?
Is the sprue plate still tight ?
Probably sounds crazy, but I've seen an awful lot of moulds that wouldn't cast a decent bullet until they good a light coat of soot ( carbon ) with a butane cigarette lighter.

If the mould is clean and the sprue plate isn't too tight, the mould and alloy HOT , a light coat of carbon on the interior of the mould and it should begin to cast some nice bullets.

Your bullets look very shiny.
They don't look like they are showing any signs of frosting at all.
More heat ! ! !
That bullet is a long bullet, it needs more heat. ( alloy and mould temp )

Ben

 

[Jeff H]

HAPPY ENDING!

All that was really needed was a friend to rant to until you remembered something you already knew.

Of course it helps a heap if the friend is an old hand like @Ben!

 

[462]

For whatever it may be worth, I start with a hotter mould. I strive for approximately 400-degrees, using a hot plate and a covered mould to retain heat, and it is a rarity that the first pour doesn't produce keepers. That goes regardless the number of cavities -- one all the way through six -- and both iron and aluminum moulds.

Ben beat me to it, but if vent lines are so important, how is it that all those ventless Ideal moulds cast perfect bullets? I've owned several and wouldn't hesitate to buy another.

 

[Snakeoil]

Okay, I'll bump up the heat some more tomorrow.

Yes, I own a ladle. I used to ladle my big bullets back in the 90's. Made me hate casting.

Not sure I've ever held or looked closely at an old Ideal mold. Venting was my first thought because the base fillout was hit or miss. I need to see if I have more fuel cell insulation. I'll make a cozy for the mold on the hotplate. It's ceramic wool sandwiched in foil. I think I have more in the garage. I made a small cap for the lead pot with the stuff.

 

[Ben]

If you get your alloy hot enough after you've cast 40 + at a fast pace, your mould will come up to the proper temp pretty quickly. As long as those long bullets are shiny, I predict that you'll continue to get poor fill out.

Are you casting at a fairly rapid pace ?

 

[Ben]

Ben beat me to it, but if vent lines are so important, how is it that all those ventless Ideal moulds cast perfect bullets? I've owned several and wouldn't hesitate to buy another.

Exactly , that is 2 of us.

Ben

 

[Jeff H]

For whatever it may be worth, I start with a hotter mould. I strive for approximately 400-degrees, using a hot plate and a covered mould to retain heat, and it is a rarity that the first pour doesn't produce keepers. That goes regardless the number of cavities -- one all the way through six -- and both iron and aluminum moulds.

Ben beat me to it, but if vent lines are so important, how is it that all those ventless Ideal moulds cast perfect bullets? I've owned several and wouldn't hesitate to buy another.

All of my aluminum moulds like to be above 360F to really show their stuff.

I've taken up the habit of the hot-plate and a thermocouple in one cavity, connected to a cheap meter to make sure I"m "there" before pouring.

 

[RBHarter]

Cold sprue plates have caused me that very grief more than once especially new moulds .

 

[seagiant]

Hi,
The other thing in the Sprue Plate mix, is if you are left or right handed?

I'm Left Handed so would prefer a straight plate versus one that angles to the right.

A lot of things made in this World, is by Right Handed People and does not work so well for Southpaws!

Better now than when I was a Kid, but!

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Keep in mind that old IDEAL moulds had zero vent lines.
They cast beautiful bullets.
Do you own a ladle ?
I'm sitting here wondering if a ladle FULL of HOT alloy sitting on the sprue hole for about 3 - 4 seconds wouldn't solve your fill out problems ?
Is the sprue plate still tight ?
Probably sounds crazy, but I've seen an awful lot of moulds that wouldn't cast a decent bullet until they good a light coat of soot ( carbon ) with a butane cigarette lighter.

If the mould is clean and the sprue plate isn't too tight, the mould and alloy HOT , a light coat of carbon on the interior of the mould and it should begin to cast some nice bullets.

Your bullets look very shiny.
They don't look like they are showing any signs of frosting at all.
More heat ! ! !
That bullet is a long bullet, it needs more heat. ( alloy and mould temp )

Ben

 

[Tomme boy]

All of my molds from accurate cast horrible till they get broke in. Whatever oil he uses to cut these has to be burned out at high heat. Someone said he uses an ultra sonic cleaner before sending the molds out. If he is he needs to rethink his solvent he is using. I have had to get the mold hot enough that the bullets are extremely frosted. If you opened the mold the lead would pour out. Then they cast beautiful after that.

 

[Winelover]

Hi,
The other thing in the Sprue Plate mix, is if you are left or right handed?

I'm Left Handed so would prefer a straight plate versus one that angles to the right.

A lot of things made in this World, is by Right Handed People and does not work so well for Southpaws!

Better now than when I was a Kid, but!

I'm a southpaw and the various sprue plate designs aren't a problem. I hold the mold in my left hand, ladle in the right. After pouring, ladle returned to pot. Open sprue plate with right hand. My sprue plate extension is always at the top of the mold, pointing away from the handles.

 

[Rick]

The proper sprue plate temp is every bit as important as proper mold temp. If you don't keep the mold closed and the sprue plate closed it is hanging out in the air, it doesn't have the mass of the mold and will cool faster. A cool sprue plate will suck the heat out of the alloy going into the mold.

Rarely is a higher alloy temp needed, 100 degrees over full liquidus is plenty to keep the mold and sprue plate at a Goldie Locks temperature. Higher alloy temps have downsides too. One is slowing down the casting by waiting for the alloy in the mold to freeze. Another is that Sn cannot do what you put it in the alloy to do past 700-725 degrees which is reduce the surface tension of the alloy going into the mold.

 

[Winelover]

^^^^Why I keep a propane torch handy, even when using a hot plate.

 

[popper]

Shiny bullets, not hot enough mold/alloy! Try 720-750F and 350-400F mold temp. Tom cuts the vents before the cavities so they don't always line up. Use a toothpick to clean the vent lines, sometimes they have flash that doesn't get removed. Break the top of the mold halves to help venting. Nose wrinkles is always cold alloy.

 

[Snakeoil]

You know, I never really did any casting with aluminum molds until a few years ago. Up until then, it was always cast iron. I started using borrowed aluminum molds as I searched for a bullet for my rifle. I read about aluminum molds and warnings about not overheating them or risk warping them so I have always run the temps on a conservative side. Last thing I want to do is borrow a mold and ruin it. It seems that caution has carried over to my own molds. And since my 03 shoots great, I saw no reason to change my technique. But the pot is heating up as I type this. I bumped up the temp a bit more and will check with my casting thermometer before I cast.

I also made a quick and dirty cover for the mold on the hotplate out of a big tomato can. When you are married to a Sicilian, you never have a shortage of big mutha tomato cans.

I'll report back with today's casting results.

 

[Rick]

Nose wrinkles is always cold alloy.

Nose wrinkles are more likely a cold mold, a cold mold will suck the heat out of the alloy giving the appearance of cold alloy. Doesn't necessarily mean the pot temp needs to be higher, the mold needs to be hotter. Been my experience that people that learn to cast with iron molds and then switch to aluminum have the most problems. Aluminum sheds it's heat far faster than iron but if your alloy is 700 degrees and the mold casts well at 375 degrees that extra 325 degrees is plenty to keep even aluminum molds at a Goldie Locks temp. A learning curve to find the correct Rythm for whichever mold your using is all that is needed.

 

[Snakeoil]

Well 722 bullets later I can confidently say that I'm happy with the mold. When I went down to cast this morning and bumped the heat setting up, with well rested eyes I noticed the old line I'd drawn for the heat setting I'd used back when I was hand dipping that Paul Jones Postell. My guess is, when I started casting again and borrowing aluminum molds, I reduced the heat setting and then removed that old line with solvent. But it left a ghost behind and it was very visible this morning. And, by pure coincidence, this is where I had set the knob this morning for that casting session.

During the casting session, I would find that all 4 bullets would drop out easily at first. Then as the mold got hotter the 3rd cavity would stick. I started blowing on the bases after cutting the sprues and that seemed to help for a bit. I then would blow into the empty cavities before pouring and that also seemed to help. The mold seems to have a sweet spot where it casts well and drops the bullets equally well.

When the session was over and the mold had cooled, I inspected the mold with my jeweler's visor. During the session, I noticed a little flash on the base of some bullets and when I checked the spure plate to mold fit, I could see daylight and could not correct it with the screws. When I removed the sprue plate, it was obvious that the aluminum had galled a bit. I cleaned it up with a flat file followed by a stone. I also cleaned up the mating surface of the sprue plate. I then coated the pivot area of the mold and sprue plate with STP. Next casting session should tell me how well the STP worked. Silicone is high temp stuff. I did use the NOE mold lube on the top of the mold before I started casting. I realize it is just 2-stroke oil. There was no other galling or scratching on the top of the mold blocks.

Looking closely with the jeweler's visor, I found a black deposit in one cavity. This was another cavity that would stick once in a while. Not sure what that deposit was. But it was tenacious. I started with plastic dental scraper and had to move to a metal instrument. I was careful and finally got it off. I also found some tiny lead deposits along the edges of the bullet cavities, usually at a groove. There were also hanging on for dear life. But careful work with a razor blade followed by a light stoning made it all well again. I did take a fine brass brush and swept from inside each cavity towards the split lines to raise any burrs that might remain from the machining process. I then lightly stoned the faces again.

I dump my pot after every session now. Installing the hair pins in place of the screws for the valve and lever makes it a snap to dump the pot after pouring ingots with the remaining allow. I scraped down the inside of the pot. But after finding those deposits in the mold, I think I need to go at it again. Although those black deposits could simply be carbon from using sawdust as a flux.

Here's the fruit of today's labor.