Perforation
- Thread starter Rick
- Start date
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Keith, I've been dwelling on your statement. Not to argue or be disrespectful, but it makes no sense. If the masks work on flu (a virus), along with hand washing, social distance and staying home and all that to the point that the seasonal flu was basically eradicated, then why didn't it work on the Wuhan virus? IMO the numbers are skewed because the criteria for reporting a case of the flu was different than that of reporting a case of the Wuhan virus. This especially goes for deaths. I don't think we'll ever know the true numbers.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
The numbers are bad because Covid-19 deaths are listed if you died "with" the virus or "from" the virus. That is a big difference.
Masks reduce the transmission of about 60% from an infected person giving it. But only about 4% from a person getting the virus from inhaling it from the airborne virus. The goal is to stop ten infected people from passing it on to more than 10 others, and if less than ten, it will die out in about 20 months. Which is what is happening. This is the same time frame as the Spanish flu in 1918-1920 and all others in the last 250 years. This one just happened to kill old people mostly.
Seasonal flues are not so much airborne as contact and they mutate every year and there is no immunity possible. But we can reduce the number of infections with the traditional methods.
Masks reduce the transmission of about 60% from an infected person giving it. But only about 4% from a person getting the virus from inhaling it from the airborne virus. The goal is to stop ten infected people from passing it on to more than 10 others, and if less than ten, it will die out in about 20 months. Which is what is happening. This is the same time frame as the Spanish flu in 1918-1920 and all others in the last 250 years. This one just happened to kill old people mostly.
Seasonal flues are not so much airborne as contact and they mutate every year and there is no immunity possible. But we can reduce the number of infections with the traditional methods.
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
Yeah, a lot of improvised masks aren't very effective. Which is why I bought a box of KN95 masks as soon as I could. And even after being jabbed I still wear them in every store I go to. And every Drs office and medical facility I go to still requires them.
When it comes to things that have a high probability of damaging or killing me I'm sort of a belt and suspenders guy. I don't like to wear masks. I don't like to wear seat belts, safety glasses, welding goggles and helmets, respirators, heavy gloves, work boots... the list could go on. But the consequences of not wearing any of those when participating in certain activities is - in my opinion - too risky. The annoyance of wearing a mask is minor compared to the annoyance of being incapacitated or dead.
Like any habit, if I don't buckle my seat belt I feel ... funny ... If I walk one step into a shop or even get within visual range of a machine tool and I'm not wearing glasses I feel ... funny ... Now if I take one step away from my truck to go anywhere beside my home or shop and I don't have my mask on I feel ... funny ...
I've found it's easier for me to develop good habits than to fight against and whine about the need to do so. I quit smoking cold turkey by changing my habits and developing different triggering mechanisms, I changed my eating habits by using many of the same techniques. If safety equipment is required I just use it until it becomes a habit.
We have a saying in our shop - "it's just as easy to make good parts as it is to make bad parts". Same thing with habits, it's just as easy to develop good ones as it is to develop bad ones.
IMHO at this point in time for me to wear a good mask in enclosed public places is a good habit to have developed.
What anyone else does is their business.
When it comes to things that have a high probability of damaging or killing me I'm sort of a belt and suspenders guy. I don't like to wear masks. I don't like to wear seat belts, safety glasses, welding goggles and helmets, respirators, heavy gloves, work boots... the list could go on. But the consequences of not wearing any of those when participating in certain activities is - in my opinion - too risky. The annoyance of wearing a mask is minor compared to the annoyance of being incapacitated or dead.
Like any habit, if I don't buckle my seat belt I feel ... funny ... If I walk one step into a shop or even get within visual range of a machine tool and I'm not wearing glasses I feel ... funny ... Now if I take one step away from my truck to go anywhere beside my home or shop and I don't have my mask on I feel ... funny ...
I've found it's easier for me to develop good habits than to fight against and whine about the need to do so. I quit smoking cold turkey by changing my habits and developing different triggering mechanisms, I changed my eating habits by using many of the same techniques. If safety equipment is required I just use it until it becomes a habit.
We have a saying in our shop - "it's just as easy to make good parts as it is to make bad parts". Same thing with habits, it's just as easy to develop good ones as it is to develop bad ones.
IMHO at this point in time for me to wear a good mask in enclosed public places is a good habit to have developed.
What anyone else does is their business.
RBHarter
West Central AR
I didn't except where absolutely mandatory , places I mostly avoided anyway .
We probably all had it in our household months before it was a thing , we had a bug that fit the profile like spandex pants . I put little faith in a vaccine that has been reported to have so many bad results , and is basically untested tech . I place less faith in it when the same doctors tell me I need to have it but as a 3 time pneumonia survivor they won't give me that one for another 5 yr . They all acted like I had a communicable mental disorder when I wanted a tetanus shot last spring .
Masks are like locks they keep honest people honest and deter the lazy and stupid , by doing so they provide some protection but a $2.99 dollar store lock hooked through a rusty bent nail like a tee-shirt mask ain't going to do a whole lot on the other hand for the average person a class A SCBA suit or isolation wall and tethered gloves is about as overkill as a poured 24" reenforced concrete vault with a 12" poured in boiler plate vault door .
We probably all had it in our household months before it was a thing , we had a bug that fit the profile like spandex pants . I put little faith in a vaccine that has been reported to have so many bad results , and is basically untested tech . I place less faith in it when the same doctors tell me I need to have it but as a 3 time pneumonia survivor they won't give me that one for another 5 yr . They all acted like I had a communicable mental disorder when I wanted a tetanus shot last spring .
Masks are like locks they keep honest people honest and deter the lazy and stupid , by doing so they provide some protection but a $2.99 dollar store lock hooked through a rusty bent nail like a tee-shirt mask ain't going to do a whole lot on the other hand for the average person a class A SCBA suit or isolation wall and tethered gloves is about as overkill as a poured 24" reenforced concrete vault with a 12" poured in boiler plate vault door .
smokeywolf
Well-Known Member
We still wear masks; N-95s; good N-95s. Mrs. smokeywolf double and triple masks. We were the only ones wearing masks at the doctor's office yesterday. I have survived 6 bouts with pneumonia and countless cases of bronchitis. I'm in my mid 60s, overweight with high blood pressure. If I contract SARS-CoV-2, my chances of surviving aren't so pretty good. My wife has a serious heart condition. Her chances are no better. When I was young and indestructable I might have said, "that won't happen to me". As your time on this earth gets shorter it gets more valuable and hopefully we get smarter. If a little inconvenience and a couple of $20 bills will lessen our risk/exposure, the decision is so obvious I'd be a fool to even refer to it as a "decision".
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KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
The vaccines haven't killed anybody to my knowledge - Covid has killed 600,000 Americans. They are well tested technology, and statistically speaking have relatively few side effects compared to other vaccines and many medicines in common use. It's quite possible for someone to have a bad reaction to anything taken into the body. I'm allergic to several common antibiotics in common use and it would be foolish for me to take any of them. But that doesn't mean I won't take an antibiotic I'm NOT allergic to if it will prevent further infection and/or help cure a disease.
Knowing how the trials have been run and with a pretty darned good idea of the power of modern computers and the technology used in modern pharma labs I have a lot of confidence in the end results.
Knowing how the trials have been run and with a pretty darned good idea of the power of modern computers and the technology used in modern pharma labs I have a lot of confidence in the end results.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
And there is the rub. Covid hasn't "killed" 600K Americans. Scientists, real scientists that ran the actual numbers, say the virus KILLED about 6% of that number. Co-morbidities did in a bunch more and a number are simply people who were marked down as "Covid" deaths after they died in a car accident, by suicide, accident or other reason. Smokey lays out why some people should be concerned, and Keith's age and medical issues put him in the same class. Co-morbidities are the killer. Real scientists looking at the data say obesity is a major factor in the deaths they have seen. As far as politicians, I don't listen to any of them. As far as scientists and doctors, you can find a great number on both sides of the issue. But the agenda in play determines who gets air time. 'Nuff said.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Pretty much. If you test positive for COVID, but have no symptoms, and have a heart attack, you are listed as a COVID death. In this state anyone who tests positive and dies is a COVID death. So the question is, how important was virus in causing the heart attack?
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Or . . . As was a documented case, how important was the virus in causing a motorcycle driver to plow into the back of a truck with his blood alcohol levels twice the legal limit. Must have been key because he was listed as a covid death. Maybe just me but I believe none of the numbers they are putting out.
462
California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Could very well have been of no importance . . .
but . . .
follow the money* . . .
Does anyone really think that some federal bureaucrat is going to investigate whether or not a patient's death was falsely listed as being due to the Chinese flu?
*Taxpayer money funneled to hospitals in the various states for caring for those with the Chinese flu, but no including an increased Medicare reimbursement. How much did your state get for every death?
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