Plain base in rifle

[JWFilips]

Also, watch the Marlins for leading in the first inch of throat with PB bullets, and if you see that, soften your alloy a bit or bump the powder burn rate and pressure.

Yes! I have had this happen in my 336 when I shot some water quenched alloy Plain Base, proper ( Fat) size bullets with light loads. It leaded the throat up so much nothing would shoot so I just went home and started scrubbing.
This also happened to me this summer in my .223 Bolt action Too hard of a plain base bullet and light loads. A real mess; First time that rifle ever leaded
The guys here had it figured out in minutes!

Ben: as to those gas checked bullets without the checks That Noe Ranch Dog has shot well for me without checks from the first time I tried it….Now that said ….I have Plain Based one cavity of that mould, a La your excellent instructions! & That bullet shoots as well if not better….however I'm out of the plain base bullets and haven't been able to cast in a few months so I reverted to shooting the gas check bullets Sans the checks

 

[Str8shot426]

What velocity are you trying to obtain?

Whatever it takes to orbitrate Lyman #2 and maintain accuracy. This may be a waste of that alloy trying. A lighter load and softer lead seems to be the consensus. I was trying for a little more speed using L2.

 

[Ben]

Ben: as to those gas checked bullets without the checks That Noe Ranch Dog has shot well for me without checks from the first time I tried it….Now that said ….I have Plain Based one cavity of that mould, a La your excellent instructions! & That bullet shoots as well if not better….however I'm out of the plain base bullets and haven't been able to cast in a few months so I reverted to shooting the gas check bullets Sans the checks

Jim,

Some like yourself say that they have had success, maybe my few dismal failures weren't a true statistical representative. Maybe I should have tried harder. I simply use plain base bullets now.

Ben

 

[freebullet]

Whatever it takes to orbitrate Lyman #2 and maintain accuracy. This may be a waste of that alloy trying. A lighter load and softer lead seems to be the consensus. I was trying for a little more speed using L2.

Nothing wrong with that or any of the advice given. You can use the bullets you've made and go with Brad's original advisement of 2400 or similar burn rate to get it moving to a speed, accuracy, & clean burn balance you desire with what you have. With those I'd guess you want 12-1500fps area, those powders should get you there with accuracy & clean burn.

My average mix o' lead for checkless fun is fairly soft. I really, really, yup...really like titegroup in 30 cals in the 800-1100fps range with 110-200 gr bullets. The average charge between 4-7 gr. for most 30 cals. Extremely consistent results year round at any angle, dangle, or temperature.

Some gc designs will plain shoot without the check, some not at all. I've found the bullet designs with the tiny thin little ridiculous driving band above the check don't like being shot plain based. If the rear band above the check is of sufficient size it can be made to shoot PB style- usually. You have to tinker to find the best solution. Having plain base molds being the ideal route, and we are lucky to have so many options in that regard today.

 

[popper]

IMHO it's the 336 MG barrel. If you believe the internet, they need to be 311 and hard. OK, that works, I've shot the LEE RD, Lasercast & Carolina RD without GC OK, unique and 2400, up to ~1300. My barrel is tight at the ends and loose in the middle. Don't know if it is the roll stamping or what. I believe what is happening with the harder alloy is being sized down, then gas cut in the middle which dumps crud at the end. My version of the 170gr RD PB does good at 1400+ & 10 gr unique PC and H.T. isocore. IMO what is happening - hard gets g.c. in the middle. Real hard doesn't care. Softer allows 'bump' up in the middle if pressure is high enough. The 336 is 2008 vintage and a real pita with PB, I'm still working on it. Oh, I make sure the base is entirely in the neck. Bottom group, I marked the aim point after shooting, this is at 50.

 

[Str8shot426]

Ok, I am working up different loads with different alloys. Lighter load and softer lead with the unique. 2400 with the L2. We'll see if I can find something with each.

Will report back.

 

[popper]

170gr. PB PCd @ 50. ~1500 fps using 10gr. unique in 30/30 336. Sort of a modified RD/041 style boolit. Upper 3 are AR 10" BO pistol, same boolit, ~1600 fps. First try with the pistol, kinda hard to hold on target. Boolit feeds OK using lancer mag. Think I need to turn the gas down, handguard keeps coming off. OH, alloy is H.T. isocore with Cu.

 

[Str8shot426]

7-8 grains of unique with the same 311041 noe plain base. We're getting there. Nasty wind and numb fingers. I definitely was running them too hot before.

Can't get a picture to stick, I'll post later.

 

[Sendaro]

I'm new to this forum so I may seem to be asking some strange questions. After reading several threads and post It has occurred to me that most of the targets posted are shot at 50 yards. I ask why and why not 100 and 200 yards and even beyond? Recently I have had the pleasure to take part in some cast bullet matches at the Wilton Rod & Gun club. There they have a match that is shot at steel disks at ranges up to 250 yards. Also shooters are welcome to shoot in the Black Powder Cartridge Silhouette match with cast bullets and cartridges using smokeless powder. The ranges there start at 200 with the chickens and the rams are at 485 yards. I've been shooting these matches with my 1885 high wall in 30-30 with the Lyman 311332 GC bullet over 15.5 grains of 4227. I'm pleased with the accuracy out to 400, but it appears to me that the wind really kicks the bullet around at 485l yards. would like to hear your thoughts.

 

[Brad]

Some people shoot at 50 or 75 as it is the max distance they can shoot at their range. Some do it as they are getting long in years and it saves lots of walking.
Some do it because it makes them happy.

I shoot many at 100 yards and I suppose it is just because? I can shoot out to 600 but have little desire to walk that far.

I have shot a few leveraction silhouette matches that went from 50 to 200 yards using cast. I learned a few things about getting reduced loads to group at 200. Velocity variations become an issue more and more as range increases.

 

[Ben]

50 yards. I ask why ?

You wonder why shooters aren't shooting at 100, 200, 250, & 400 yards ?
Every thought that a lot of shooters don't have access to these distances ?
There are many shooters who are forced to shoot at an indoor range because
they own no property. These people won't be shooting 400 yards either.

 

[Rick]

Why and why not would be for some range availability and/or preference. The only range available to me currently is 100 yards. The majority of my cast bullet shooting was in handgun silhouette that starts at 50 yards and goes out to 200. Other reasons also such as eye sight, I know I could no longer see a target at 200, takes a pretty decent scope to see a 100 yard target theses days and iron sights are out of the question. Another reason would be preference, guys just doing what they enjoy.

 

[Ben]

I , for one, " evaluate " my rifle loads at 50 yards exclusively.
Wind, sighting error, are minimized at this distance.
If the load won't shoot @ 50 yards, I don't waste the powder , primers, and lead to test them at the distances you describe.

Do I shoot farther than 50 yards, YES !
Do I shoot at 400 yards - - - - no.
I don't have access to 400 yards.

Ben

 

[JWFilips]

The question about 50 yards? :
Well many of my plain base loads use very light charges and are subsonic or nearly so. As Ben mentioned; that distance is a good one for evaluating loads (like these) because of less wind problems.
I also can see and hold better at a target at 50 yards....which in turn increases my satisfaction and enjoyment.

Sometimes I do enjoy shooting shooting my GEW98 with medium plain base loads at 200yd with receiver sights ( waiting to hear the kerpunk) But I still enjoy it better at 50 yards shooting a 3" bull.
I do shoot my 223 and 243 at long distances but with gas checked bullets ( never got plain base to work well with those calibers)
If we were allowed to shoot steel on our range I would give it a try at long distance but since targets can only be paper I shoot for my enjoyment
Jim

 

[Sendaro]

Guys, Thanks for the replies and the input. I get the picture. Like I said, I'm new to this forum and my questions maybe a little strange to some. I'm trying to learn as much as I can to make accurate cast bullets and loads. At present I shoot a 30-30, 25-20 SS, and a few Stevens 44 1/2s in 32-40. I have also been attending the Schuetzen matches in NYS. There we only shoot plain base bullets, and the standard ranges at 100 and 200 yards. I find casting and CB load development fascinating. Thank you all for your input.
Sendaro

 

[Brad]

Sendaro, as you can see this is a touchy subject. Not shooting at a certain range but rather questioning someone's motives.
We all shoot for enjoyment. Some enjoy competition, some enjoy plinking. I rarely shoot groups with handguns, I prefer plinking with them.
I shoot to satisfy my own needs. I hope others do the same.
It isn't WHAT we shoot that matters, it is THAT we shoot that matters.

 

[Ben]

Another reason would be preference, guys just doing what they enjoy.

I agree with Rick,

People do what they enjoy, be it 485 yards or 50 yards.

Ben

 

[Ben]

I find casting and CB load development fascinating. Thank you all for your input.
Sendaro

Welcome to the forum Sendaro and enjoy your shooting !

Ben

 

[Sendaro]

Brad, My handgun shooting also is plinking for the great fun of it. My rifle shooting i take a little more serious. my goal is to develop loads that shoot accurate so that i may enjoy them in different matches and plinking at extended ranges. The fun for me is in getting that rifle to shoot great and taking it out to do so. I have to admit that casting is fun as well. I've been a re -loader for the past 52 years. I'll try to be a little more sensitive with my questions. Thank you, Sendaro

 

[Sendaro]

Thanks for the welcome Brad. I'm sure that I will learn much from the folks on this site.

Sendaro