Powder funnel for Dillon 450 that bells mouth of .250 Savage brass

[shuz]

Im looking for a powder thru funnel that will bell the mouths of my .250 Savage brass. I am using a Dillon 450 press. Dillon says that I might be able to take one of their "C" funnels designed for the. 30 carbine.
Is there another option available such as a 25ACP Lee powder thru die, or ? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

 

[shuz]

I meant to include.....Dillon said to maybe turn the C funnel down to fit.

 

[Brad]

Man, the thru hole is gonna be tiny!

Think about this- outer dimension is .258 call it. Need a smaller area around that to reduce drag. Call it .250 now. Subtract .050 for walls, way too thin for my pleasure. Now you have a .150 max hole for powder to go thru. With more realistic wall thickness you are dropping powder thru a 1/8 in hole. Anything other than a ball powder is gonna be prone to bridging.

Not caging it can’t be done, just that it isn’tt likely to be satisfactory. I would rather prep cases, including expanding the case mouth, and then use a drop tide in the 450 with a fit like a traditional powder funnel to add powder.

 

[fiver]

you can bump a 25 cal. case against a 30 cal powder funnel.
i load 25-20's on the 550 using the 30 carbine funnel.
the 250 may work that way, i have a 250 but haven't tried.
the die would be cranked up pretty high and all you'd get is the flair.

i'm one of those that also wishes they'd make some flair type funnels for rifle cases similar to the pistol ones only shorter.

 

[Brad]

Easy to make Fiver- I just don’t know how well anything under 8mm would work.
The flair part is easy, it is expanding the neck that is the hard part.

 

[fiver]

you'd almost have to start with a blank that has a small center hole, then chop saw the thing down and turn it from full size, then center drill it to size.
i know easy enough, but they ain't doing it and putting them up for sale, and nobody else is either.
if they were i'd have a 22-35 set on the shelf.

 

[Brad]

A 22 would be tough. Awful small hole for powder. A 30 would be pretty easy. Would need to be somewhat case length based- a 300 BO length one won’t work for an 06.

 

[fiver]

the 30 carbine one will work for the 300 no problem.
it's in my 550 right now with the 223 shell plate.
it doesn't open the neck any though.

 

[Brad]

It wouldn’t be hard to make something to flare a case mouth for something like 300 BO.

 

[Michael]

Dillion shows a funnel for a .25 handgun (13243-R), but it does not specify if it is for 25ACP or .256 Win. May end up needing to screw the powder measure die screwed almost all of the way up. Give them a call and see which one it is for. Can they make one up for you, I have one for a .256 Win that they offered back in the olden days.
You will be sizing the case anyway and running the case necks back over the expander ball, even if the funnel is for 25ACP is undersize so what, the inside dia of the case will already be set by the FL die expander ball. All you will need to do is just flare the case mouth, IME Dillon funnels for straight sided cases have a pretty generous taper especially in the smaller calibers.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I had a few powder funnels made for a larger cartridge (38 Special) and offered the fabricator a new Dillon powder funnel for a larger caliber so that he could turn it down. He declined, saying the steel alloy used by Dillon was extremely hard and difficult to work with. He fabricated new powder funnels from scratch using some other steel (I don't know what alloy he used but the funnels have performed perfectly with thousands of cycles)
So, just tossing that out there if you elect to machine a custom powder funnel.

 

[Ian]

The problem I had with the smaller caliber PTE expanders is getting them to align with the case mouth exactly while still having a large enough hole through them to prevent powder bridging. I was having issues with crushing case necks on the longer-cased .30-calibers (like 30-30 and up) and had to make floating case guides reamed with chamber reamers for each cartridge chambering. This allows a smaller tapered tip on the expanding spud and a fairly large powder drop hole. .25 caliber is probably below the realistic capability of a powder-through neck expanding spud.

 

[Brad]

Crushed a few 32 H&R due to misalignment. I learned to go slow and physically ensure alignment each handle pull.
Most handgun cases have a large bas diameter to length ratio, rifle cases do not. This allows tipping, even a little, to lead to large case mouth to expander misalignment,

 

[shuz]

Dillion shows a funnel for a .25 handgun (13243-R), but it does not specify if it is for 25ACP or .256 Win. May end up needing to screw the powder measure die screwed almost all of the way up. Give them a call and see which one it is for. Can they make one up for you, I have one for a .256 Win that they offered back in the olden days.
You will be sizing the case anyway and running the case necks back over the expander ball, even if the funnel is for 25ACP is undersize so what, the inside dia of the case will already be set by the FL die expander ball. All you will need to do is just flare the case mouth, IME Dillon funnels for straight sided cases have a pretty generous taper especially in the smaller calibers.

Michael,
Does your 256 Winchester funnel go inside the neck of the case or outside like the K funnel?
If inside, could you please measure the size of the hole that the powder drops through?
Thanks
Ray

 

[shuz]

Perhaps I should clarify what my end game is.
I wish to put my neck size die in station 1, powder thru expanding die in measure in station 2, seating die in station 3, and Lee factory crimp die in station 4.
That would enable me to put a case in station 1, and not have to remove it until it pops out after station 4.

 

[Michael]

Hi Ray,
The funnel goes down inside of the case neck, and the hole measures right at 0.200". Probably a smidge larger in dia. than the average one size fits all .22-.45 powder funnels from RCBS, Horn, etc.
Unless the longer grained extruded powders are being used, smaller grained powders working better. May need to go slower on the way up in order to allow the powder to drop over a couple three seconds vs all at once and as Ian mentioned to make sure the expander spud lines up properly with the case mouth. The mouth of the expander spud does have a rounded taper to it about .050" in length. Total length of the unit is 2.562", Expander/flare portion is 0.315" in length, 0.150" being the flare and the rest the expander spud.

The unit is marked with an "R". I bought it back in '85.

Hope this helps.

Michael

 

[shuz]

I found a Dillon 13243R like the one Michael described. It's on its way to me now.
Thanks for all the help on this quest!
Ray

 

[shuz]

I received the 543R funnel and it's way too long for the .250 Savage or my .25-06.
After many attempts to contact Dillon for help and not getting any phone calls returned, I tried again today and asked the tech rep how much to cut off the top of the 543R so that I could use it for both the. 250 Savage and .25-06. He said about 6/10ths of an inch should do it. I will have to get a groove machined in the cut off funnel to allow the measure funnel set screw to hold?
Any thoughts on this idea or my post of earlier today about an adapter that would just raise the whole powder measure upwards?

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Perhaps I'm not following you. The powder funnel (powder through expander) rides inside a 7/8" threaded die body that is essentially a hollow tube. The expander is free to move up & down inside that die and it is the upward movement of the expander that activates the powder measure.
There is no set screw securing the expander (powder funnel)
You can screw the outer die body in or out of the tool head to set the correct height when the powder funnel is in the fully raised position (against the powder measure with the measure at the maximum height). That sets how deep the expander is forced in the mouth of the casing.
Assuming the expander has the correct dimensions and shape for the portion the that enters the case mouth, the only other adjustment is the total height of the die body and that's adjustable by screwing it in or out of the tool head.

Here are some photos of a 40 S&W powder funnel :

Powder funnel die with expander (powder funnel) together

powder funnel die body (top) and powder funnel (expander) below

powder funnel, or powder through expander, shown outside the die body.

 

[Brad]

He has a 450, it doesn’t have the powder measure but rather a funnel. Think of a 4 station press with not “automation”.

The groove would be required for the funnel to work, otherwise the expander will just come out the top of the die body.