S&W .38-44 Heavy Duty

[StrawHat]

I must have misunderstood. I thought all the guns you listed were 4" with a rounded frame. My bad.

Bret4207,

You are correct, the revolvers listed in post 26 are 4” round butts. I mention the others merely to say we could compare them also. Sorry for the confusion.

Kevin

 

[RBHarter]

At around 4 caliber lengths you start getting free BC . That's where it seems to hit in 30 and 45 anyway .

 

[Ian]

I just love armchair critics. You do you Oscar, sounds like fun to me!

 

[Charles Graff]

Shoot fire boy, now here is a heavy 38 Special, 230 grains to be exact. I spec it would shoot plum through most folks. Click the pic.

 

[JustJim]

The RCBS 200 gr FN does OK using 38/44 loads when shot out of a .357. I've never had an N frame 38 that I could try it in.

 

[Ian]

plum through

Now there's colloquialism you don't hear every day. I think it's "plumb", though, meaning "absolute" or "downright", or am I plumb crazy?

 

[Charles Graff]

Now there's colloquialism you don't hear every day. I think it's "plumb", though, meaning "absolute" or "downright", or am I plumb crazy?

Never saw it writ, only heard it spoke.

 

[Ian]

Etymology is a kind of hobby of mine.

 

[CZ93X62]

Etymology is a kind of hobby of mine.

Same here--"Plumbus" is Latin for "Lead", which they used for piping in water through their Empire, hence the word "Plumbing" to describe same.

More than a little experience with "Heavy for caliber" bullets in 38 S&W, 38 Special, and 357 Magnum. Why? Because it's THERE. 200 grainers in heavy 38 S&Ws can run about 625-650 FPS from my Webley-Enfield and S&W revolvers in 38/200. In 38 Special (non-+P) the Lyman #358430 (195 grain version) can get to 700 FPS. This same bullet can achieve 1200 FPS in 357 Magnum using WW-296 powder safely with CCI #550 primers (12.4 grains, per W-W data). This load is UBER-ACCURATE. In the mid-1980s I varmint-hunted with the 200 grainers extensively, in 38 Special and 357 Magnum. The 38s frequently showed evidence of the "cartwheeling" effect as they traversed through jackrabbits, coyotes, and a couple badgers. I concluded that the British idea that their 38/200 load would cartwheel to improve terminal ballistics had some merit. Run at 1100-1200 FPS from 357 Magnums, the bullets drilled straight through, unfailingly. Critters were still DRT if hit properly. Years later, the NEI # 169A (38/200 Mk I duplicator) in my S&W M&P did similar things to critters--they appeared to tumble while traversing. Also, at the range against steel plates at 25 yards using both 38 S&W loads (Lyman #358477 @ 725 FPS and NEI #169A @ 650 FPS) the lighter bullet hit with a light PA-TINK sound; the 169A hit with a CLANG and moved those plates significantly more. There was SOMETHING going on with those heavier bullets. FWIW.

 

[L Ross]

A fun load is a .357 case of compressed Swiss 3 fg under that 358430 195 grainer. Boom!

 

[Bret4207]

Etymology is a kind of hobby of mine.

It don't matter none to we'un's, but I reckon I've always seen the word spelt "plumb", as in "plumb astonished", "plumb up and died", etc. I always took it to mean "true" as in a plumb (lead) bob hanging on a string gave a true or "plumb" line to base everything else on.

Didja get the job Ian?

 

[Ian]

He called and we had a good talk. I'm going in Monday morning to see how they do things and to have a pow-wow over hard numbers, mainly insurance. It's a high-end independent automotive shop and hits all my strong points, we just have to work out the details. I'm not looking anywhere else until we make a decision one way or the other.

Years ago when I regularly attended a local range, I caught a lot of flak on the pistol line for smoke from my bullet lube (Felix or LLA), so just to be an ass I loaded a box of .38 Specials with 3F Goex and a big glob of Emmert's on a felt wad under the bullet. Next time someone bitched I said "Oh, I'm sorry" and out came the K-38. Flaming dirt and copious amounts of semi-rancid lube made the point splendidly, although cleaning the revolver later was a major pain.

 

[L Ross]

He called and we had a good talk. I'm going in Monday morning to see how they do things and to have a pow-wow over hard numbers, mainly insurance. It's a high-end independent automotive shop and hits all my strong points, we just have to work out the details. I'm not looking anywhere else until we make a decision one way or the other.

Years ago when I regularly attended a local range, I caught a lot of flak on the pistol line for smoke from my bullet lube (Felix or LLA), so just to be an ass I loaded a box of .38 Specials with 3F Goex and a big glob of Emmert's on a felt wad under the bullet. Next time someone bitched I said "Oh, I'm sorry" and out came the K-38. Flaming dirt and copious amounts of semi-rancid lube made the point splendidly, although cleaning the revolver later was a major pain.

I have a buddy that shoots falling plates with a Webley .455 loaded with full black. His lube is made from horse tallow and bee's wax. He calls it Pegasus lube. The other shooters are simply dazed.

I loved shooting cowboy with full black loads. The scorer and by standers would choke and cough. Some times the smoke would hang and you'd have to wait to see a target. Shoulda heard the whinin' and bitchin'. I always figured it was a bit closer to historically accurate. The go fast poot and tink guys and my wife and I did not see eye to eye and we eventually gave up.

One shoot we attended had a solve the stage however you wish scenario. Lots of targets, lots. I used 5 rounds of .38 S&W by loading 4, laying the top break pocket Smith broke open on the poker table. At the beep, I loaded the 5th round and took the 5 swingers double action. Drew my Richards/Mason .44 Colt conversions duelist style and shot the next 10. Next I shot 10 with a 66 carbine replica in .44 spl but using my .44 Colt ammo. Lastly I used 32 rounds of 12gauge with my extra ammo carried in a lard bucket. I had soaked my felt wads in melted lard and shot 2 1/2" cut down, roll crimped paper hulls. The oil was cooking out of the forearm when I finished. You bet I was wearing a cow hide leather glove on my off hand. I shot some of the shotgun targets twice just for the hell of it. Chaos, smoke, confusion, mayhem, looked like a trash fire in a land fill. Yee haw, all full black powder. Of course Sue and I were camped in a wall tent and spent two hours cleaning guns and brass while our neighbors changed into shorts and flip flops and sipped G&T's in front of their 200 thousand dollar motor homes.

 

[Ian]

Screw 'em and feed 'em fish heads I say, what a grand time!

 

[oscarflytyer]

I just love armchair critics. You do you Oscar, sounds like fun to me!

Never Fear Ian! It is ALWAYS about me at the end! (except, of course, when it is about the wife, or the kids, or the grandkids.... But when it comes to guns and fun - it is DEF ALWAYS about me! lol!)

 

[oscarflytyer]

And because of the nose profile combining with the extra weight gives a completely different terminal impact based on something other than sheer speed. The old 38 "Super Police" load with the 200 gr RFN in 38 S+W and 38 Spec had a good anecdotal reputation for knocking down BG's far better than the standard 145 or 158 gr RN. Penetration is another thing, the 303 Savage 190 gr always had a better rep in that regard than the 150/160/170 gr 30-30, especially in moose country.

And like the man said, 'cuz he can!

Bret - I have ALWAYS been a bigger fatter better fan! I joke that, if it ain't a thumb bore, I ain't real interested. But then, I love the 32-30 and 222 Rem and 6.5x55! Oh well, just cuz I can!

 

[oscarflytyer]

Shoot fire boy, now here is a heavy 38 Special, 230 grains to be exact. I spec it would shoot plum through most folks. Click the pic.

 

[oscarflytyer]

Shoot fire boy, now here is a heavy 38 Special, 230 grains to be exact. I spec it would shoot plum through most folks. Click the pic.

Hhhhmmmmm??!!?? Like I need egging on! And, I DO have a 250 gr 358 mold! Hhhmmm INDEED! lol!

 

[oscarflytyer]

The RCBS 200 gr FN does OK using 38/44 loads when shot out of a .357. I've never had an N frame 38 that I could try it in.

Jim - happy to be your Huckleberry!

 

[oscarflytyer]

I have a buddy that shoots falling plates with a Webley .455 loaded with full black. His lube is made from horse tallow and bee's wax. He calls it Pegasus lube. The other shooters are simply dazed.

I loved shooting cowboy with full black loads. The scorer and by standers would choke and cough. Some times the smoke would hang and you'd have to wait to see a target. Shoulda heard the whinin' and bitchin'. I always figured it was a bit closer to historically accurate. The go fast poot and tink guys and my wife and I did not see eye to eye and we eventually gave up.

One shoot we attended had a solve the stage however you wish scenario. Lots of targets, lots. I used 5 rounds of .38 S&W by loading 4, laying the top break pocket Smith broke open on the poker table. At the beep, I loaded the 5th round and took the 5 swingers double action. Drew my Richards/Mason .44 Colt conversions duelist style and shot the next 10. Next I shot 10 with a 66 carbine replica in .44 spl but using my .44 Colt ammo. Lastly I used 32 rounds of 12gauge with my extra ammo carried in a lard bucket. I had soaked my felt wads in melted lard and shot 2 1/2" cut down, roll crimped paper hulls. The oil was cooking out of the forearm when I finished. You bet I was wearing a cow hide leather glove on my off hand. I shot some of the shotgun targets twice just for the hell of it. Chaos, smoke, confusion, mayhem, looked like a trash fire in a land fill. Yee haw, all full black powder. Of course Sue and I were camped in a wall tent and spent two hours cleaning guns and brass while our neighbors changed into shorts and flip flops and sipped G&T's in front of their 200 thousand dollar motor homes.

L Ross - THAT is THE KOOLEST thing I have read/heard/can envision/WISH I had thought of it and it had BEEN ME in a LONG time!!!!!! Just simply priceless and awesome.

and fwiw - a shout out to Ben - I use BLL - and every time I shoot an indoor match (I always shoot home cast) I get accused of shooting BP! I just tell them to blame it on Ben! lol!