Small ring Mauser strength question

richhodg66

Well-Known Member
What are these limited to pressure wise assuming it's in good shape and was a quality made one to begin with (not Oviedo)?

Saw one on Gunbroker someone had built up in .22 BR, seems like a high pressure cartridge(?) but I'm not real sure. Can a '93, '95 handle that OK?
 

todd

Well-Known Member
heck i made a '16 Spanish Mauser aka Oviedo in 6.5x55 Numrich sporter barrel for my youngest son. right now it is shooting a 120gr Nosler BT with IMR4350 going roughly 2700fps. i can take it up to around 2900fps (2 gr of 4350), but why? he has shot 2 deer with the 6.5 Swede and i wish many more.

the 6.5 Swede and the 7x57 are both 46,000 CUP or 51,000psi SAAMI, or more than enuff of the '16 Spanish. now i am NOT going recommend a max load or higher. i am stupid, but not that stupid. just a nice mild load will get it done. and yes, have a gunsmith check it out so the rifle is safe.
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Jeff H

NW Ohio
I'm in agreement with all so far. No reason to push one. There are myriad "modern" rifles available for that.

I've had people get really, really mad at me for suggesting that you shouldn't push a pre-98 like a 98. Oh, well. People pick what they want to believe. I guess I've picked to believe that pre-98s should be left to original chamberings or similar.

Anyone interested in Mausers should check out Ludwig Olsen's book on them. The book probably costs a fortune mow, but it's a real treasure. Another is Jerry Kuhnhausen's Shop Manual on Mausers. Both home in on details 99% of people overlook or don't know about. Very valuable books to have on hand.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Built both my 275 Rigby’s on 1903 double heat treated actions with nickel steel bolts. So even with top “book” loads I have another margin for error.

My shooting buddy built has on a German small ring and very happy with it. But he also loads to 7X57 data.
 

Josh

Well-Known Member
Don't quote me here, but I'm pretty sure the good small ring mausers aren't really "weaker". It's that they have no gas mitigation safety features, which means you'll get very hot gas in your face and eyes with a case failure.

When compared to large ring mausers and the like... they are "weaker" in comparison, it doesn't make them weak though. Just unsafe when something goes wrong.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
I agree with that for the most part, but I THINK that as Mr. Mauser came up with better ideas re. escaping gasses, he was paying more attention to metallurgic and HT details too. He did make the front ring bigger for some reason, but I don't remember the history. These are general feelings developed over the years reading and using.

The Swedes, using THEIR steel and THEIR HT methods did make some pre-98s which have always been considered stronger (maybe just better or more consistent) than other pre-98s.

These actions are not through-hardened, rather SURFACE-hardened and over-pressure rounds will eventually move metal and cause headspace problems - which can lead to escaping gas problems. If too much metal is removed to correct lug setback, square up bolt-lug contact, or to square the receiver shoulders to the barrel, re-heat-treating may be necessary. I've never had to, but have been very choosy, inspecting carefully, etc. It's not cheap.

Bottom line comes down to what a Mauser-'smith once said to me regarding a quote for having a commercial barrel installed, sporter bolt handle done, D/T for scope and receiver sight: "to do all that, I could sell you two Howa barreled actions! WHY would you want to do that??"

My answer was "Because a Howa's not a Mauser." Apparently, that was the "magic answer" because he suddenly became much more pleasant and agreed to do the work. It was $400 to turn a $100 antique into a plain-Jane sporting rifle and that was without the stock, bluing, sights, etc. when a brand-new Ruger M77 was just over $300. You kinda have to be a little fanatical to WANT to do that specifically.

Luckily for me, my dad was a Tool & Die Maker and was very good. He did all the bolt-handles, all the D/T'ing and hinged floor-plates. I did the rest.
 

Rushcreek

Well-Known Member
A late friend traded into a custom 91 Mauser single shot 22-250 at a gun show in the early 80s.
It had a neat loading tray spot welded in place of the magazine, a Sako varmint weight barrel, and a Timney trigger. It wasn’t that pretty but it digested a LOT of 55grs @3800 fps loads on our PD excursions with no seen issues.
That said, I have experience with three 1916 Oviedo actioned rifles in 6.5x55, 7x57, and 30-30 Win.
I’ve loaded the 30-30 fairly warm, but the pressure is still low for the action built around the 7x57.
I would not barrel one to a high pressure cartridge out of respect for the age of the action.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
The 3rd safety lug and better gas handling in the event of a ruptured case are the big differences between small ring and large ring Mauser actions.

Rather than classifying a small ring Mauser as “weak” and a large ring Mauser as “strong”, I believe it would be more accurate to say that a small ring action is strong, and a large ring action is stronger. Or one could say the small ring action is adequate for its intended use and the large ring has an additional layer of strength.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
The 3rd safety lug and better gas handling in the event of a ruptured case are the big differences between small ring and large ring Mauser actions.

Rather than classifying a small ring Mauser as “weak” and a large ring Mauser as “strong”, I believe it would be more accurate to say that a small ring action is strong, and a large ring action is stronger. Or one could say the small ring action is adequate for its intended use and the large ring has an additional layer of strength.

About the best way I've heard to describe it.

It's not so cut and dry with the millions produced, where they were produced, by whom and how they've been treated for over a hundred years too. It's hard enough for savvy 'smiths to sort them all out, we (thinking of myself here) amateurs hardly stand a chance at defining which hard limits apply to which old Mauser. Safest to stay within the a wide band with so many other actions available. What would we miss if we were wrong and a specific pre-98 would have taken more pressure than we'd guessed?

I'm not the authority on the topic - I've always been quite pleased with the original chamberings and their attendant pressure levels, so I've never ventured forth with higher-pressure stuff.

@Tomme boy , In one of the revs of DeHass' Bolt-Action RIfles, he noted that the Husqvarna 51 action was actually NOT a 98, but a refined 96, but with modern metallurgy and HT. These were sleek, svelte actions, not as bulky as the 98 and its variants and chambered for many higher pressure rounds as well. In my opinion, that commercial version was the epitome of the Mauser bolt-action. The Czechs come in as a close second. I remember the surplus 96s Kimber was selling. I specifically remember 30-06, but forget the others. They were nice little rifles and a good deal.


I had a neat little Chilean 95 action with a 94 Swede barrel and Spanish 93 bottom-metal (hinged floor-plate in a cheap Choate stock. Neat little gun. I really wanted to turn it into a 18", full-stocked 35 Remington, but at about that time I realized that I just had too many projects going and wasn't enjoying not keeping up. Sold it to a park ranger who's pay was ridiculously low and couldn't afford a decent rifle. He got a gem (and a steal of a deal) and I felt good about getting him into a good rifle. Win-win.

The pre-98s are sweet little guns. Cartridge brass is made better and more consistent these days, I believe, so if one is not just stupid about it, and the gun has not been abused, they can be a real pleasure to own and to shoot. I think a lot of the gas problems of the day had a lot to do with ammo quality, how it was handled and treated in a sever environment, coupled with the possibility of worn and poorly cared for arms. Paul Mauser lost an eye to escaping gas and was therefore quite vested in managing it where HE had some control over it.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
The trouble with Mausers,93,95, 96, even 98's, is that they were built in 27 countries by 100+ plants a bunch of which were only built to get arms in the field , then there's Spain and Turkey.

I love Mausers but like AMC Jeep just about the time you get it all figured out you get one with a 10 bolt GM front end and a 9" 35 spline rear end with a 305 T case hooked to a 727 .
 
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todd

Well-Known Member
here is a 1898 Springfield Armory in 30-40 Krag by the late Micheal Petrov. it is interesting on what did to the rifle.

 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
it wasn't just jeeps. All of the amc cars were a mix of all of the other car makers parts. What blew my mind when younger was a Ford 3 speed manual trany in a 64 GTO
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
how bout Chevy sourcing 4 speed transmissions from Opel in the early 70's?

anyway my issue with the hundred twenty sumthin year old rifles is.
they come from god knows where and who had them, they were beat down on a battlefield or three and maybe run over by a tank before being buried in nitrate rich mud for a decade.
then dug out and loaded by Francois Bubba junior till he picked up a K-98 in 43 under similar circumstances.