Solve the mystery

[johnnyjr]

Today I went to the range with some NOE 74 gr bullets. Bhn of 14. Tried imr 4227. At 50 yards. 14.5 gr of powder. Up to 15.5. lol zero hits on the target. Nothing. Shot some into the dirt back, didn't see any hits. The barrel is lead free. Ran 5/6 patches thru it. Where did the bullets go. Will they vaporize like some jacketed bullets. Lol

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

The single time I experienced simular was with 45 Auto and handloads from a new loader.

We was shooting @ 50 yards. He was excited and got the ammo out and a 98 mauser rifle converted to 45auto even using 1911 magazines.

Any how 7 shots not a hole or puff if dust. Checked barrel ammo.. no idea.

I tried but from my port. I happened to have trees over my part of frames. I took down some
Leaves/limbs.
@ home I found he had crimped the bullets so much they was barely .450 and where likely tumbling wildly.

Thats all I got... Tumbling undersized bullets...

CW

 

[Winelover]

You need to move in closer and get a bigger target.

 

[Tomme boy]

Yah don't crimp if not needed like a lever action. Plain base or checked?

 

[johnnyjr]

The single time I experienced simular was with 45 Auto and handloads from a new loader.

We was shooting @ 50 yards. He was excited and got the ammo out and a 98 mauser rifle converted to 45auto even using 1911 magazines.

Any how 7 shots not a hole or puff if dust. Checked barrel ammo.. no idea.

I tried but from my port. I happened to have trees over my part of frames. I took down some
Leaves/limbs.
@ home I found he had crimped the bullets so much they was barely .450 and where likely tumbling wildly.

Thats all I got... Tumbling undersized bullets...

CW

These are sized ,244

 

[Tomme boy]

Were these powder coated or conventional lubed?

 

[johnnyjr]

Yah don't crimp if not needed like a lever action. Plain base or checked?

No crimp

Were these powder coated or conventional lubed?

Regular lube plus tumble lubed as well. The Lyman Lovering 86 gr were dead on last time I was at the range. I had made no scope adjustments prior to today.. I will be trying the other 74 gr with gas checks tomorrow is I can. There was also no wind..

 

[Tomme boy]

Then you blew out the base. They went too fast for uncoated bullets

 

[johnnyjr]

Then you blew out the base. They went too fast for uncoated bullets

I thought of that. Wouldn't this lead the barrel though??¿

 

[Tomme boy]

not always

 

[fiver]

yep,,, nope.
i've pushed bullets fast enough to see a grey poof at the muzzle through the scope... zero leading.
in fact it cleaned all the junk out that was in there.

 

[johnnyjr]

I think that what happened to me today. Should have made an effort to put them over the chronograph..

 

[Jeff H]

Doesn't sound like enough 4227 to do that. Lyman says 19.5 grains behind a 85 grain bullet will see 27.3kpsi and 2300+ fps.

Your highest charge is 20% lower AND your bullet weighs 13% less. Maybe I missed something else, but that doesn't seem like enough to completely vaporize a cast bullet.

I agree with @Winelover - move closer AND get a bigger target. I'm not above posting a target at ten yards for the first three shots. My guess is they are all missing paper by a bit and you're not seen the dust. Even in really dry weather, and especially if there is any vegetation, dead or alive, I rarely see dust fly anyway. Look to see if they hit the dirt and skidded under the target too. I've walked right over the skid marks in the grass to find "shrapnel" marks near the bottom of the target, turn around and LOOK, only to find the skid marks I missed when I wasn't looking for them.

I've had low pistol bullets skid across the dirt in front of targets and raise no dust, ricochet straight up and land six feet to one side of the target in a THREE-INCH, three-shot "group" of bullets lying on the ground.

And NO hole in the target.

 

[Dusty Bannister]

The debris may have damaged the Chrono had you done that. But moving closer to at least record particles of the bullet on the target would tell you something. If you look at Lyman CBH 4th:
12.5 gr IMR 4227 with 85 grain bullet gets 1591 FPS
14.5 gr IMR 4227 with your 74 grain would get a lot more than that due to lower weight and needed at least a gas check. Start low and work up. Perhaps the lube and TL was able to control the leading?

 

[Jeff H]

.....and needed at least a gas check. Start low and work up....

These are plain-base? I missed that somehow.

I'm referencing the same data, but mentioned the max listed for comparison. The bullet in the Lyman manual is a gas-checked bullet. If these are plain-base, I don't think there is enough of a correlation to make my reference even remotely valid.

Plain-base/no PC - start with some Unique at 1200 fps and see what happens. Work up from there. Starting above the minimum charge listed of 4227 seems a tad aggressive for a plain base.

 

[Bret4207]

I think that what happened to me today. Should have made an effort to put them over the chronograph..

Dust going over the chrono probably wouldn't register.

 

[Ben]

Plain base bullets are not very tolerant of speeds past 1,500 fps in my experiences. Some situations even less than 1,500.

 

[Ian]

These are plain-base? I missed that somehow

Johnny never said. He was asked and didnt respond.

I see no mystery. The bullets went under the target in a 2' group.

 

[Jeff H]

Johnny never said. He was asked and didnt respond.

I see no mystery. The bullets went under the target in a 2' group.

 

[johnnyjr]

Back on target this morning. I lowered the charge a little. Yes these are plain base bullets. Tumble lubed.bhn of 14..