'Spearment

Joe7436

Member
Oh I understand that it's happening. I'd like to know why my rifle and the ones that 45 2.1 has don't even come close to doing what your rifle does. My bullet noses don't hit anything going into the chamber. Like I said it will feed empties. Something is the matter with your rifle or how the magazines are setting in it. Try empties and report what they do. Use cases you don't care about incase it messes the mouths up.
 

Ian

Notorious member
It feeds empties but smashes the mouths terribly. Some of the cartridges get bent so badly at the shoulder when shooting that they won't chamber fully. The magazines seat FULLY against the bottom of the receiver, I don't know what else can be done. I even took a junk magazine and ground the front seating pads off of it so it would go in further, that helped a bunch, and even grinding 1/16" off the front still didn't drag the feed lips on the bottom of the bolt. But, I don't know how the receiver could be mis-machined because there's only about a quarter inch of metal between the left bolt raceway and the top of the magazine well. No way to thin that out without cutting well through the hardened receiver surface.

Rick says his feeds by hand, mine won't unless the noses are fully pointed. Mine even bends the tips of FMJ when chambering. How many different designs did Bruce shoot through his with no regard whatsoever for meplat size? Like six or eight different styles? Zero feeding issues, he didn't even mention it because it just wasn't a factor. With mine, it has been THE factor. It's a fun gun with the one bullet I have shot so far that actually cycles through the gun without getting torn up, other than that it's a nightmare.

Three brands of magazines (Chinese, CMI, and Springfield) all do the same thing with FN bullets.
 

Joe7436

Member
Mine feeds by hand too. Even with empties nothing up front on the case hits anything on my rifle. My Garand is the same way. My 1903 Springfield will feed empties. I haven't owned a Mauser that would. Those are stories for another time, it's too bad you couldn't send the rifle back to Springfield and have them look at it, BUT don't tell them you reload or shoot cast from it. From what I'm reading else where Springfields quality and quality control on their receivers isn't the greatest. It's been said that the USGI receiver were actually better then the new ones SA is making nowadays. You could have one of those "bad" ones. I know you are very aware of the many people that own these rifles and have no problems with them. I'm one, everything on it works as it should. I just can't beat into my rifle's brain that I one ONE GROUPS FROM IT!!!!
 

Ian

Notorious member
Well, something's badly wrong with mine because EVERYTHING bangs the feed ramps hard. You can see in the picture how the nose is aimed right at the outer diameter of the barrel recess, and the case body is fully contacting the guides on the magazine.....that's just the direction that the magazine points the cartridge and the cartridge has to make quite a tilt to get the bullet nose to start going into the chamber.

Would you take a picture of yours with the bolt locked back and a loaded magazine inserted? I'd like to see the angle and elevation of the top cartridge before the bolt hits it. Maybe also, if you can let the bolt some forward to start stripping the top shell right about to the point where my picture showed the jam and hold it there for a picture, I'd like to see that too.
 

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
Now you're on the right track Ian. You need to do a side by side comparison of your rifle to another M1A that has no feed issues. Not sure pictures will do; would be much better to get with an acquaintance who owns one and do a physical comparison. Dollars-to-doughnuts you'd be able to detect the problem.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
First thought that comes to mind is the magazines themselves. The first mag I tried in mine was a 5 round mag and it did much as you describe for yours, dinged up shoulders and all. The only change or fix I did was to use a 20 round magazine and I had no more feeding issues. I got three magazines with rifle, 2 20 round and the 5 round. One of the 20 round magazines is still in the factory sealed plastic & never been used, something seemed amiss with the 5 rounder and I haven't yet done anything further with it. I have no idea what brand these magazines are, there is not any kind of stamp, number or any other markings on any of them but more than likely aftermarket.

I need to study the differences between the two mags, right now I have no idea what it is but something is certainly different between the two.

What brand magazines do you have?
 

Ian

Notorious member
Checkmate (CMI) 20s, SA factory 20s and one 10, and some unmarked Chinese (Norinco, I think) 20s which would be fantastic magazines if they didn't spread at the top when loaded. If the magazines spread, the feed angle changes. My SA 10 wouldn't feed at all until I took it apart and pinched it severely in a vice to "spring" the sides closer together in the area where the case shoulders ride.

Art Luppino lives just a few miles away from me, I've been thinking about looking him up and begging his opinion even though he'll probably tell me just to shoot jacketed bullets of the correct profile like everyone else does, get a decent haircut, and quit whining.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
A decent haircut? Maybe A haircut?
Magazines can be the bane of any magazine fed firearm. If you have a true guru nearby it sure doesn't hurt to look em up and ask for help.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Luppino is one of the few top expert M-14/M1A armorers in the world. As a hobby cast bullet shooter with a hack job of a bargain-basement Springfield M1A, you can see why I'm hesitant to waste his time.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
A phone call doesn't cost anything. Worst he can do is say not interested. You are fortunate to have a true expert in your back yard.

Go for it Ian, he may be just what your rifle needs.
 
3

358156hp

Guest
Maybe offer him pizza? A lot of these guys are pretty approachable as long as we're nice to them.
 

Joe7436

Member
I've also read some stuff about magazines. Those in the know said the USGI mags are the best. When you mentioned Norinco Ian a light went on. See if you can try someone else's magazines that you know in your area. They even said the SA mags were junk. They also said don't mess with anything except the 20 round mags too.

I'll try to take some pics. Right now this website all the sudden got extremely slow for me and wouldn't work most the day.
 

Joe7436

Member
Okay Ian here are some pics:
M1A_zpshkqjh5y4.jpg
M1A1_zpspo61fnpr.jpg
M1A2_zps5cjqjeop.jpg
M1A3_zpsvmze6mkj.jpg
M1A5_zpsbisyiltn.jpg
M1A6_zpsuidqr02e.jpg
M1A7_zpskr59xdz7.jpg
 

Joe7436

Member
Ian here are my measurements from my M1A for the end of the chamber neck area, the throat, and groove. The chamber neck area is .3450. The beginning of the throat is .3118. The end of the throat is .3100. In the middle of that it is .3108. The leade starts .2000 from the end of the chamber. The groove on my barrel is .3080. Now my barrel is marked National Match, it's stainless, and it is full barrel diameter out of the receiver to the hanger for the operating system. That still doesn't give a clue to how I use bullets sized at .313 sometimes a little over by half a thou.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Checkmate makes all the GI mags and has for years, that's why I bought some of them. They are identical to the SA mags. I junked both of my no-name magazines promptly and used them for experimentation with feed angles etc., but I think all that was really wrong with them is they spread under pressure (thin steel) and weren't latching in so the front tabs were firm against the top of the mag well. Magazines are not the problem anymore with mine feeding.

Those pictures help, but they don't show the feed angle of the other 19 rounds, which are my problem. All my magazines feed the last round just like in your pictures, it's because of the shape of the follower, it actually turns the nose of the round up and dead center of the chamber. See how the case body isn't parallel to the magazine lip? If they all did that, there would be no issue. But when two or more are stacked in there, like in the pic I posted, the noses kick out more parallel to the action and don't angle up so much, which is why the blunt-nosed bullets hit the barrel recess and stop dead. Stick two dummy rounds in there with the Accurate bullet loaded in them, let the bolt fly home on the first one, and see if it doesn't take a big chunk out of the nose. Everything else on yours and mine look the same, so I can't understand why you don't have feed issues with your Accurate bullets any more than you can understand why I do.

We obviously have very different chambers and throats, mine has a parallel .310" freebore less than half as long as what yours is, and the chamber neck is much tighter with a taper to it. Barrel is steel with the standard pencil contour. Behind the op rod guide, it's just slightly larger than in front, but not "full diameter" by a long shot. It only weighs nine pounds without optics and an empty magazine installed, but has the full 22" barrel and NM flash suppressor.
 

Winelover

North Central Arkansas
Have the same types of feeding issues with my Armalite AR-10. Refuses to feed anything 100% with anything resembling a meplat. After altering the feed lips on my magazines, I am now able to get close to 100% reliability with Miha's 180 SIL.

NOE's 311365 's nose profile was about the only boolit that would feed, but accuracy just isn't up to par. However, NOE's 311414 (150 SP) has about the same shape and has been far more accurate for me and less fussy with most canister powders, I've tried.
 

Joe7436

Member
I'll load up a magazine with more rounds and try to get pics. Yeah my barrel is really fat as far out as they could go before running into that bracket and of course they aren't going to get past that gasblock. Make's me wonder what the profile of the Super Comp barrel looks like. My rifle was heavier then nine pounds with no scope. In matter of fact, being my AR 10 is heavy, I though "Wow this thing isn't any lighter then my AR 10". That fat barrel is a major reason.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Fat barrel between receiver and op rod guide, and wood stock are why yours is heavier. Nice setup, though, I would be just as happy with that as with what I have unless I was packing it over hill and dale for miles.

The more I study mine and research, the more I think there's nothing really wrong with it. That doesn't explain how you and Bruce and Bob and probably a whole host of other guys are able to shoot big-meplat bullets through theirs with no issues. I just can't figure out how mine is different, and I've studied a lot of photos and videos on the subject.
I don't think you can view the pictures without being logged in, but if you can, here's a perfect example of another person having the same troubles I am....but with FMJ ammo. I personally think he just needs to squeeze his magazines in a vise, but no one else had a solution for him either. http://m14forum.com/modern-m14/139464-m14-failure-feed.html

I know that overall length of the cartridge has a LOT to do with how the case feeds, for example shorter bullets cause shoulder dings from the chamber entrance because they let the case head kick to the side or up more when the rim pops free of the magazine lips than a longer OAL does.
 

Joe7436

Member
Yes you are correct about the barrels, op rod guide, and stock. I was researching some on the differences between the Nation Matches (any configuration) and the Super Match. In Springfield's literature the Super Match barrel is listed as heavy weight, 1-10 twist, Douglas barrel. Depending which National Match you have the barrel is listed a medium weight, 1-11 twist, air gauged barrel. As I was fooling with my rifle to help you out I looked at the barrel marking and it's stamped "National Match 308w.

I looked at the photos in that link you have posted and all I have to say is WOW!

I got the photos of the two dummy rounds I fed with the Accurate big meplat bullet. I'm going to post them on 5.56.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ian

Notorious member
Huh. I could have sworn you said they don't do that in your rifle. Guess I'm not crazy after all.