Stevens Tip Up rifle in 32 cal

[Glaciers]

Well I’m looking for advice about these rifles. I was told that this rifle was converted from rim fire to center fire. I can not see any evidence of the conversion but it is definitely center fire now..
it’s a half round half octagon heavy barrel with a beach combination sight up front. Nice looking rifle.
My question what is the correct cartridge for this gun if it was convert. Or if it started life as a center fire. There are so many 32 caliber cartridge possibilities that I’m confused. I was hoping that some one here might have knowledge of these rifles..
The price I think is ok, but he did turn down my offer. I just don’t know values on these and frankly this is the first one I’ve handled. Rare bird this far north.
any advice is appreciated

 

[RicinYakima]

Define "tip up", as they made several. I have a large frame model 1867 target rifle in 35 Stevens. It is commonly called the "goose neck" model. A picture would help greatly.

 

[Glaciers]

Well only finding a couple of listings in the Flayderman’s Guide 2nd edition left a lot to be desired.
But cruising through my library I came across a copy of Single Shot Rifles and Actions by Frank de Hass
Charter 16 is:






The model I’m looking at has the wooden forearm.
The 4 page write up goes into Joshua Stevens history and the beginnings of J. Stevens & Company. Anyway this appears to be the first rifle and covers a lot of information that I was not aware of.

But, as to calibers there was this paragraph that I have questions about.


I believe the owner is under the impression that this rifle was a rim fire converted to center fire. When I looked at the breach face I could see it was a center fire with no evidence that a rim fire pin hole was covered up. Frankly there isn’t a reason to cover a rim fire hole once it’s been converted. So I’m under the impression that the owner is wrong. Armed with a little more knowledge I will need to look at the rifle again.
But the question remains what 32 caliber is it? Looking at the text it says .32, .38, and .44 Long center fires. Does that mean 32 long, 38 long, and 44 long? Or could it be a different 32 caliber?
In the Handloader’s Manual of Cartridge Conversions there are 3 listings that look possible. One, .32 long Colt, next.32 long Centerfire, and .32 S&W long.
There are others but these three have Long in the name. The 32 Colt and the 32 S&W are close to being one and the same, the chamber variations from one gun to the next might be more of an issue.
The .32 long centerfire other name is .32 long rifle.
That’s what I have so far.

 

[Bret4207]

Chamber cast is the best option. Could be any of a number of cartridges, some in the .312-.314 area and some up more like an actual .320. If it is an original CF, and if it is a Smith/Colt, it should be easy to get it shooting. If it's something like a "32 Everlasting", "32-35" or something, you may need custom brass. There were a bunch of different 32's in the day.

In a really well done RF to CF conversion, one that has a 100 years of wear and what not, it can be hard to see the old RF hole.

In nice shape, that would be a really unique rifle to own!

 

[L Ross]

Just bear in mind that when it comes to that "old Stuff" they were meant to be shot with black powder, and probably not at the volumes of ammo we take for granted today. Even an old Winchester 1885 receiver supposedly will not test on the Rockwell scale.

Neat old gun. I owned and played with a Frank Wesson two trigger in 32-35 Stevens and I wish now I'd have never let it go.

Oh, and I'll bet the old codger wants at least 800 bucks for it.

 

[Glaciers]

Well a chamber cast would be in order for sure. I’m thinking the S&W long is probably not in the mix, guessing obviously, but it came out in the 1896 so close to the end of production. But just guessing.

I’m not going to hot rod a gun like this it would be nice to just get it shooting. It’s a deceiving looking rifle, looks rather small, which makes you think light, but it’s a chunk. The half round barrel is pretty stout..

He’s asking $400. Problem is that I just bought 3 other shooters. Glad Karyn is in Illinois.

 

[Cadillac Jeff]

Just remember John, she will have to come home sometime... buy it for her!

Just trying to help, Jeff

 

[Glaciers]

Yeah “Got a gun for my wife, good trade right”
Karyn has lots of guns, guarantied more then she wants. Kinda worn that one out over the years.

 

[Cadillac Jeff]

That is how I got the pretty little model 25 in 25-20 ...bought it for Annette,payed to much for it too!

 

[RicinYakima]

Yep, that is the second model with forearm. Mine is a first in "38-35" that has a .362" bore. Mine is a heavy target model with 34" barrel and weights 10 pounds. Breech seat 38 HB WC's and lathe turned cases with black powder and grease wad.

 

[Glaciers]

Well I’ve arranged to meet with the owner for a closer look tomorrow after he gets off work. I’m going to take a fired unsized and one new 32 S&W long and see if they will chamber. Won’t tell me much, but…

 

[358156 hp]

It could be .32 Stevens too. IIRC, Colt took the Stevens rimfires and converted them to centerfire and called them.... 32 Colt. 32 Colt for the longer version, and 32 Short Colt for the shorter one. Colt never actually named anything "long" the ammunition makers did that. It's just another guess without hard measurements, but it's either this, or something else.

 

[Glaciers]

It's just another guess without hard measurements, but it's either this, or something else.

Now there’s an understatement. LOL
I’m betting it’s a Colt, but I’m a crappy gambler.

 

[Bret4207]

It could be .32 Stevens too. IIRC, Colt took the Stevens rimfires and converted them to centerfire and called them.... 32 Colt. 32 Colt for the longer version, and 32 Short Colt for the shorter one. Colt never actually named anything "long" the ammunition makers did that. It's just another guess without hard measurements, but it's either this, or something else.

Yup, but don't confuse those Colts with the later "New Police" jobs, at least if my memory is working. The 32 New Police was just the 32 Smith & Wesson Long with a flat nose bullet. I'm pretty sure those are different from the earlier 32 Colts.

ETA- Wasn't sure, so I checked with Phil Sharpe and his book verifies that. He does note the 32 Colt is "somewhat smaller in diameter than the 32 S+W", so keep that in mind.

 

[RicinYakima]

More likely it will be the 32-35 Stevens cartridge. That takes 165 grain 32/40 Ballard bullets, but cases may be harder to make.

 

[Glaciers]

More likely it will be the 32-35 Stevens cartridge. That takes 165 grain 32/40 Ballard bullets, but cases may be harder to make.

After doing a little more research I’m afraid that you are probably correct. It looks like you could make brass out of 30-30 brass but it might not work. So possibly rechambering to 30-30 might work, but, don’t know. I was in hopes of the pistol cartridges.
So if not a pistol cartridge then my interest is greatly reduced. Cool old rifle but I have other cool old rifles that I’m already neglecting.

 

[L Ross]

More likely it will be the 32-35 Stevens cartridge. That takes 165 grain 32/40 Ballard bullets, but cases may be harder to make.

I made mine out of .30-30 brass but the base was too big right ahead of the rim. Rather than lathe turn them, (no lathe), I ran them into a 9m/m carbide size with the stem removed and swaged that base until they would slip into the Frank Wesson's chamber. Left an odd little ridge in the brass that offended my OCD, but they worked.

 

[Missionary]

In my thinker "funcionallity" trumps pretty. Especially when it comes to being able to shoot "old iron".

 

[Glaciers]

Well I find that interesting Mr. Ross, kinda what I was thinking that there could and probably was a work around.

Michael, your right on the money there. I used to be a diehard Winchester collector, but I kept looking at all those fine Winchesters and not wanting to even take a chance of nicking one, so they would sit in that monstrous safe in the dark and not being enjoyable to me other then owning a nice rare piece of history.
So keep an eye out on Glassparman’s thread of Vintage guns where I will be posting a couple of Winchester lever boat guns.

 

[Glaciers]

I meet with the owner after he got off work today. It’s definitely not a 32-35. I could just barely start a new 32 S&W long into the chamber. So I suspect a 32 Colt long. I brought my dial caliper along and got a rim measurement of .442 and a head diameter of .320. The rim diameter will except just about anything and the chamber diameter suggests the Colt as well. The 32 S&W has a head diameter of.335 so that’s out.
I also forgot to bring my cleaning rod and brushes.
Not only that but this model doesn’t have a forearm. I’m going to chalk that up to not being observant rather than sometimers. But a nice looking rifle with the half round half octagon barrel.
Didn’t buy it, yet. I’m thing Phil has a 32 S&W reamer.