The Basement Articles: The Paper Jacket

[JWFilips]

Ian,
Is there any speed criteria that must be met for shooting patched bullets? I prefer to shoot at lower velocities and recoil levels & just was wondering if I would be needing to drive a paper patched bullets at nominal or higher speeds for results or could I still shoot them at lower speeds ( like 1100 to 1400 fps in a 8x57 mauser)?
Jim

 

[Ian]

Honestly I have loaded the "slower" stuff very little. Only example I can think of is my NEF .45 Colt carbine at just over 1300 fps with a 340-grain Lee bullet (cast soft, sized to .448" in a custom die). I got the best results using a fairly weak sketch paper that pretty much comes out the muzzle as powder except for the folded base. No reason you can't have excellent results at lower velocities.

Avoid any papers that have clay filler in them (such as cheap, ordinary inkjet or laserjet printer paper) unless you're looking for a final bore polish, in which case they are most excellent in that capacity. For more information on papers, read the thread "paper 101" in the black-powder paper patching sub-forum on the Castboolits site. VERY good information there, if a bit technical at times.

 

[JWFilips]

Thank You Ian:
I like technical...will do! Clay filler paper!.... wonder what grit polish that would be? I hand lapped/polished this bore out to 1200 grit Think clay at 6000?
I know my core (.317") so I'm waiting for a Lee pass through .314" to hone out to .317" I have a lot of 8 mm bullet candidates now but soft & hard Thanks to some good friends here. ,...... It will be an on going project.
Jim

 

[RBHarter]

I wrapped a 260-120 fp NOE for a 264 WM I would have to look at notes but 12 gr of Unique for 1570 -1590 comes to mind .

 

[S Mac]

Ian, I know I have read somewhere about paper rings remaining in the chamber after firing a patched bullet, is this not an indication of the case being a bit short, something to be avoided?

 

[Ian]

Yes. I like my cases chamber-length minus just a couple thousandths. This requires close attention every reloading. When it is not possible to achieve that, a stronger, more slick paper can help prevent it. The issue is that if the ring doesn't come out on the fired case mouth, the next cartridge will bind up on the ring and spoil the shot a little. You should be able to feel it when you close the bolt if there is a fragment of ring at the end of the chamber or partly in the throat.

 

[Doug]

Yes. I like my cases chamber-length minus just a couple thousandths. This requires close attention every reloading. When it is not possible to achieve that, a stronger, more slick paper can help prevent it. The issue is that if the ring doesn't come out on the fired case mouth, the next cartridge will bind up on the ring and spoil the shot a little. You should be able to feel it when you close the bolt if there is a fragment of ring at the end of the chamber or partly in the throat.

Greetings and thx for this site. Had a religious experience w/ it last night reading a thread on bore riding bullet diameter wh/ led to to the epiphany of the chamber dynamics that eclipse the strictly barrel considerations. Came here as I'm still new to casting and b/c some of the writing nears downright poetic. Also appreciate your approach to shooting--how better to be able to speak to every gun imaginable than from the bullet's point of view? And finally, came here for validation--wh/ I've just gotten. I was convinced that, all things bein equal (wh/ they never are), I should be ordering long brass for my unusually long chamber and trim it back. I'm only doin BP shooting wh/ sometimes seems to be a very narrow interest, but I figure that whatever applies to other shooting forms also applies to us. Thanks for confirmation, and for a fine site indeed.

 

[Ian]

We often speak in terms of "making the gun happy" with our handloading procedures and selection of components, a "happy" evidenced by safe, reliable performance together with satisfactory groupings on our targets. However, you are more correct in stating that the bullet's point of view is really the one that matters, and we must entertain it's perspective as much as we possibly can learn it if we are to provide the bullet what it needs to do what we desire it to do.

 

[JWFilips]

Ian,
You are the True cast bullet Philosopher!
Well said!
Jim

 

[JWFilips]

But then again: fiver has the ability to process the micro seconds of bullet launch! Wow! We are truly blessed to have such folks on this forum!
Best place on the net!
I'm glad to be here!
Jim

 

[Ian]

I think Fiver must be from the Matrix. He can think in 'bullet time' and also can think on a molecular level such as with bullet lube.

 

[JWFilips]

All I know is : you guys are so cool : it is like I'm back in my chemistry class (1970!) I just love it!

 

[Doug]

Yeah, it's like a C P Snow wet dream--a real marriage of art and science. That's why I joined, anyhoo.

 

[Rick]

I've always described Fiver's "bullet time" as high speed photography in freeze frame advancing the film one frame at a time. Helps me (hopefully) visualize what's happening.

 

[JWFilips]

Some say that is really what is happening to us in "Space Time"! Our lives are just a freeze frame of the continuum!! Blame Quantum Physics for that!

 

[Doug]

I've always described Fiver's "bullet time" as high speed photography in freeze frame advancing the film one frame at a time. Helps me (hopefully) visualize what's happening.

New to all of this but kinda got captured by harmonics of the 3-D variety (a la OCW and OBT). Where can I read Fiver's "bullet time?" Interested in all things dynamic re: my rifles.

 

[Ian]

Doug, years of discussions and PM's on other boards, but here's a sort of "all in one place" thread where we're hashing out how we think it works:

http://artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/lets-break-this-down.915/

 

[Doug]

Thank You!

 

[S Mac]

I finally had an chance to send a few downrange today, talk about disappointment. Did good to keep them on the target backer at 50 yards. After the first volley went down to check my target, removed the bolt to look at the bore, haven't seen leading so bad since I first started loading cast. Scrubbed the lead out and repeated. Same result.

Cores are sized to .301 in 3 steps with Brad's push through sizers, which are excellent by the way, wrapped with two wraps of greenbar paper and run through a .3105 sizer right before loading. This is a Lyman 311041, patched to about .2" from the nose and tucked at the base.

Case are sized with the neck expanded with a RCBS .311 expander spud, bullets are seated by hand a seated with a die, left long and seated when chamber the final bit.

No paper rings that I have seen, these cases are longer than I tried earlier. No lube was applied, I tried with my lubesizer but very little lube was deposited.

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?

 

[S Mac]

I got to thinking, maybe the leading started in my prior session with the paper ring episode. A little leading left over there and it went downhill rapidly yesterday. My theory at this point.