The Infamous Bunny Gun in 9x19mm

[Outpost75]

Green Mountain Gunsmith Special 9mm NATO blank 16-1/2" with 1:10" twist of rifling. Fitted to small frame H&R pre-WW2 .44 shotgun action.

Firing pin bushed. Barrel contoured to fit original shotgun fore-end. Integral sight bases machined into barrel for Kensight reproduction M1 carbine rear sight and US M14 rifle front sight. Muzzle threaded 5/8-24 TPI for can.

Stows in backpack. Finished weight 4-1/4 pounds. Zeroes at 50 yards with 147- grain subsonic ammo with rear sight bottomed. Next range trip to determine sight come-ups for 147s to 100 yards and 124-grain +P and M882 Ball to 150 and 200 yards.

Teamed with my Beretta 92FS and S&W 940 figure this to be my future woods wandering rig.

 

[richhodg66]

I love thisconcept. Read Ed HArris' article about doing these up in .32 S&W L and .32 ACP depending on what handgun he was carrying. Been enamored with the concept ever since.

I've been eyeballing those little Yildiz .410 singles at Academy Sports for a while now. I thinkone would make a find base for such a project.

 

[Jeff H]

I was just about to ask if we were going to get to see this thing! I started questioning whether I'd really heard about it or dreamed it. Hectic week, still trying to figure out which end is up.

I'm with @richhodg66 on this one - and the 32s and the 38s,...

My current most-used/most useful is an 18", suppressed Contender Carbine. Tons and tons of versatility, from bunnies to deer, but truth be told, I've never even shot a full-fledged magnum round through this one - it's all been cat-sneeze loads or sub-sonic.

A 9mm barrel (which my can will accommodate) would be an easy one to rationalize adding. Smaller case capacity - more appropriate to the charges I use for subs, plentiful, cheap brass, takes up less space in one's pocket,...

Switching back to a semi for carry after several back and forths over the years,... I'm not feelin' that yet. I've done it several ties and have always come back to revolvers and figure that this time, I"m gonna be lazy and not make the switch again.

The project makes all the sense in the world, especially for such a carbine.

Now, if Rossi would just get it in gear and chamber their most recent single-shot (only available in 45/410 at the moment) in 357 and/or 9mm (even the 45 ACP), there would be a workable, lightweight and inexpensive donor platform. After hearing about this project, if Rossi chambered their newest single shot in 9mm, I'd buy one and skip the Contender barrel.

EDIT: ...and THANK YOU, @Outpost75 for sharing this. I love your projects.

 

[oscarflytyer]

I LOVE the concept. and a 32L/32S&W/32 ACP sounds like fun. But why do I envision one in 32-20 and also in 30 Carbine?!?

 

[Todd M]

Love it. I have an old shotgun action just waiting for something like this.

 

[Rushcreek]

Not as neat as Outpost’s little 9mm, but I like these nevertheless! Top to bottom Toppers; .256 Winchester, .218 Bee, and 44-40

 

[Barra]

Nice.
I had a few shots of a begara 9mm and it was quite nice and kept up pretty well with my 310 cadet.
Definitely not 4lbs nice and the sights weren’t as good as yours
Interested to see how it shoots.

 

[300BLK]

I'm sort of surprised that with the plethora of backpacker/survivalist guns already made, that 9x19 hadn't been done. Ammo is cheap, fired brass is everywhere for the picking.

As for the flyweight Yildiz 410, I wonder if the aluminum receiver with bushed breech face would be up to the 9x19 pressures?

 

[Missionary]

I am all for the basic Idea.
For well over 15 years we have been hauling about a Glock in 40SW and the Keltec 2000 in 40 SW using Glock Mags. It folds and stores in a back pack or hangs nicely on a one point shoulder strap.
For SS, well we squeeze once.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Teamed with my Beretta 92FS and S&W 940 figure this to be my future woods wandering rig.

That's a Fantastic concept, on every level.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Addressing the point that JeffH brought up concerning switching back and forth between revolver and pistol, I feel compelled to chime in.

I have a great deal of revolver DNA encoded in my brain and while I use both revolvers and pistols, I lean a little towards the revolver. Outpost75’s project (which does include a S&W 940 revolver BTW) is an excellent example of pragmatic planning. 9mm Luger ammo is extremely common, easy to carry in quantity, versatile and cheap.

A compact, single shot, pistol caliber carbine that can be fitted with a suppressor and chambered to match a carry handgun – is very useful. Add excellent sights, a bomb-proof action and you really have a good tool available.

The concept could be applied to a rimmed revolver cartridge, but I like the vision that Outpost75 is pursuing. Three guns that share the same chambering, a ubiquitous cartridge that can be loaded to suit the need, but the guns will all work with the basic NATO cartridge in nearly any form if needed. A concealed carry gun (the S&W 940 in this case), a full-size pistol (Beretta 92) and a versatile long gun that is compact, lightweight, can be broken down for carry and can be equipped with a suppressor. That’s a three gun combo that has a lot going for it.

 

[Slughammer]

I've been considering a Savage 340 in 9x19. Do you think a 1:16 350 Legend Blank would work on subsonics? I'm interested in supers and thinking 1:16 would be the best for me. The only reason I'm considering 1:10 is because I don't want to potentially restrict myself by the slower twist if I drastically change my mind in the future. But if 1:16 would work with heavy and slow 9x19, that's the way I would like to go.

 

[Jeff H]

....The concept could be applied to a rimmed revolver cartridge, but I like the vision that Outpost75 is pursuing....

@Outpost75 is largely responsible for the course I eventually took - the revolver/single-shot carbine route. The idea had been nagging me since I was a kid, but I ran up against arguments that (pick your favorite) revolver round (worse yet an auto-pistol round) was "too big for small game and too small for big game." Outpost75 's influence through his copious tomes validated the concept and pushed me past the old, bad habit of trying to cover ALL bases with one gun, when that "one gun" became bulky, heavy and burdensome for the sake of one or two percent of my (possible shooting). Further, a dear friend/knife-maker, Brian Andrews helped push me past that as we discussed knives over the years - "ignore the what-ifs."

Without getting too verbose:

Revolver/Single-Shot Carbine:
I've always especially disliked the 357 in a revolver, until I considered it in the context presented by Outpost75;
I went with the 357 as opposed to something smaller - committing the "what-if" sin;
The 357 is VERY popular and brass is cheaper than the 44s and 45s, but can be stretched to hunt deer if necessary.

Auto-Pistol*/Single-Shot Carbine:
I've never been a 9mm fan - nothing against it, it just never excited me;
I've always disliked certain features of the auto pistols;
Case capacity of the 9mm is more suited to the vast majority of the loads I shoot, especially subs**;
9mm is cheaper, ubiquitous and takes up a lot less space.

*One COULD have a revolver in 9mm, but the selection is very limited.
**Through a LOT of experimentation over many years, this really has not been a problem for me in the 357.

THIS is a topic for which no one else need interject with their own logic/reason/advice (good, bad or otherwise), because it's a topic I can (and have) argue with myself for hours, days, weeks,.... decades and never run out of points to ponder.

Outpost75 has done it to me again - come up with something that make so much sense that I wonder why I couldn't have come up with it one my own. I love it.

 

[Jeff H]

I'm sort of surprised that with the plethora of backpacker/survivalist guns already made, that 9x19 hadn't been done. Ammo is cheap, fired brass is everywhere for the picking.

As for the flyweight Yildiz 410, I wonder if the aluminum receiver with bushed breech face would be up to the 9x19 pressures?

Well, I had only recently heard of or considered it myself and I have been obsessed with this concept for years. The 300 BLK was even one of the single-shots I played with as a "bunny gun," which was initially an idea that seemed pretty off-beat.

Why didn't I think of this when it was such an obsession for so long? I guess the folks figuring out who would buy such a thing would have to sell the idea to a market which already has the nine firmly pigeon-holed as almost strictly a defensive round for pistols and sub-guns with significant magazine capacities. As I look at things now, that was pretty much MY perspective on the nine, even though I'd been toning down the 357 and other cartridges to do stuff with them they weren't especially known for.

Preconceived notions? Prejudices?

 

[Jeff H]

Poly Tuffy Survival - 410 BORE - 45 COLT

needs description

rossiusa.com

These just started to show up on sites for sale and are priced under $300. I've been watching/waiting for a 357, but who knows if they'll ever do it. Their older version (discontinued and hard to find) was so-chambered. IF it can be chambered in 357, it should be fine for the nine as well. This could save someone some gunsmithing, even if it's a little ugly, but for the price, I find this level of ugly a bit endearing.

Here I was a week ago, plotting to buy a new 24" Contender Carbine barrel in 360BH. I have the 357 Mag AND Max barrels and was thinking of bumping up a notch as a spare barrel, but now I am thinking of a 10", threaded 9mm barrel and another "stamp" to SBR one of my frames.

I love the Contenders, but such a project - such a concept - begs for more creative innovation and less of spending one's way into perfection. The Contender almost comes off as a bit bourgeois for this application. Maybe I should just scrounge around for an old shotgun and just do this right.

 

[Outpost75]

I LOVE the concept. and a 32L/32S&W/32 ACP sounds like fun. But why do I envision one in 32-20 and also in 30 Carbine?!?

I also have a similar barrel chambered for the .30 M1 Carbine cartridge with rim seat cut at breech so it can also use .32-20 ammo which I load for my Ruger .30 Carbine Blackhawk. It has the same sighting arrangement, but the 20-inch barrel it is not threaded. Has a Picatinny rail added for use with optics mostly for ammo testing. I also have a .45 ACP barrel with a rim seat cut which accurately and reliaby fires and ejects .455 Webley/Colt/Eley/MkII.

 

[Outpost75]

Y I've been considering a Savage 340 in 9x19. Do you think a 1:16 350 Legend Blank would work on subsonics? I'm interested in supers and thinking 1:16 would be the best for me. The only reason I'm considering 1:10 is because I don't want to potentially restrict myself by the slower twist if I drastically change my mind in the future. But if 1:16 would work with heavy and slow 9x19, that's the way I would like to go.

The 10-inch twist 9mm Luger blank will accurately stabilize a blunt, 240-grain flatnosed lead bullet at 720 fps with 3 grains of AutoComp. With gradual leade angle of NATO STANAG 4090 9mm chamber pre-engraves bullet like chambering Eley Tenex in a .22LR match rifle.

Penetration is absolutely astounding, straight through EIGHT gallon water jugs with no signs of tumbling. Just the thing for Sasquatch invading your wilderness garden patch.

This test firing is from my .38 S&W Lettuce Protector I had built to exploit a hoard of heavy ball WW2 ammo to supplement my Victory Model S&W, but a NATO throated 9mm rifle barrel would do exactly the same.

Bullet from Accurate Molds is 36-240H. Originally designed for subsonic in fast-twist .38 S&W Rook Rifle. Also accurate and stable in .35 Whelen 16-inch twist at 1200 fps with 8 grains of Bullseye.

By the way...ALL of the Bunny Gun barrels interchange between my two H&R Garden Gun receivers, so that I can pick and choose which handgun caliber combo will accompany the original .410 or .44 Shot barrels to compliment whichever handgun is going along on the trip.

This is why you DO NOT want to do a "stub job".

 

[Jeff H]

I always rely on @Outpost75 for inspiration for my own endeavors along this vein and always learn something.

I think I remember an article on a 26"(?) 38/357 version which was particularly quiet. I wanted something shorter and put together a Contender with a 18" barrel and basically spent another $1k to make it "particularly quiet."

By the time I was done, MY "shorter" barrel ended up being............ 26" long.

 

[richhodg66]

I have been giving some though towards having this ruined Savage 219 .30-30 barrel I have relined and chambered to this .30 Badger. I think that would be a really cool stalking rifle even if it didn't have a matchung pistol.

 

[Outpost75]

As an homage to Petrol & Powder's comment, I am also an old school revolver guy trained by FBI-NA instructors at Quantico in the early 1970s, being readied for overseas deployment. I have carried and preferred wheelguns ever since, and as a civilian engineer, having been involved in their testing, evaluation, product engineering and manufacture.

In today's world being retired while considering modern threats I faced reality and decided I needed to change with the times. The S&W 940 is a compact, powerful and reliable EDC as long as I avoid +P ammo and marry it to 147 subsonic which extracts easily and shoots to the sights. Fast reloading possible with clips mitigates its reduced 5-round capacity.

Common 147 grain 9mm ammo does 900 fps from the 1-7/8" barrel, giving adequate expansion and penetration which is much better than .38 Special +P from a snubby.

I avoided the temptation to add a 9mm PCC because doing so was a distraction which defeated the potential need for an adequate long gun with 250 yard/metre engagement range with proven capability to defeat auto doors, glass, or other bullet resistant cover. If I need a battle rifle I prefer 8 rounds of cal. 30 APM2 from my Garand to a magazine of 5.56mm woodchuck loads.....

With training and practice the Beretta 92 fired in rollover prone is fully adequate to engage personnel to 100 yards. With a basic load of 3 mags it handles most situations.

As a game forager the 9mm Bunny Gun with 147-grain ammo matches a 6-inch .38 revolver firing +P ammo. The Beretta platform.is combat proven and 9mm ammo is both plentiful and cheap. I have no plans to reload 9mm, but instead stacked it deep.

If I had to evac with what I could carry my beloved wheelguns other than the 9mm S&W 940 would be left behind. The ruck can carry lots of 9mm ammo for lower weight and cube.