The Snubnose J-Frame

[Petrol & Powder]

Personal opinion here, but I think .357 magnum in a snubnose J-frame is not a good idea. For the record, I’m not talking about the 3” and 4” barreled models (those aren’t “snubnose” models in my book)

The problem isn’t the gun as much as it is the grips. The strength of the snubnose J-frame is its small size. When you start putting large grips on those guns, you destroy the primary trait of those little guns.

When you put big grips on a 2” barreled J-frame (1 7/8” barrel actually), you effectively make the gun the same overall size as a 2” K-frame. At that point, you might as well select a 2” K-frame.

I get it when people install comfortable grips on a 3” barreled J-frame to exploit the good attributes of that type but those aren’t snubnose guns to start with. I’ve shot .357 magnums from snubnose revolvers, and I don’t care to do it again.

 

[Winelover]

I use Mika pocket holsters, almost exclusively. Mine are the square cut type. One is the standard width, the other I had another inch added to the width so it wouldn't turn in the pocket of cargo pants. Beside the J-fames and LCR, they also work for small semiautos, like the Kahr and Beretta Nano.

All my CC revolvers wear Crimson Trace laser grips............the compact round butt on the J-frames. CT does offer several different sizes for the J frames. Some sizes defeat the purpose, as P&P stated. CT offers only one size for the 357 LCR. Large enough for controllability, small enough for concealment. IMO

Since I already owned three J- frames in 38 Special, made no sense purchasing a LCR in that chambering. So I opted for the 357 version. Yes, it more costly and slightly heavier (two ounces) but more versatile. Fits in the same holsters that were made for the J-frames.

All but one of my J-frames are hammerless. The Model 60 was the first purchase and I learned a lot about what I preferred in a carry piece. First to go was the exposed hammer. I made a set of micarta grips, fashioned after the now discontinued Bianchi shrouded rubber offerings and added a Tyler grip adaptor. Top right picture.



Second issue was the weight of the all stainless piece. That's where the 642's came in. Why two? One is Cindy's and one is a Performance Center (Talo) version with improved trigger.

Out of the box triggers on the J-fames are notoriously heavy. Sighting arrangement is less than adequate. That's the reason for the CT grips.

Last purchase was the Ruger 357 LCR. Everything a J-frame lacks. IMO. Better out of the box trigger and more usable sights. Same small package in a proven fight stopping chambering. Only short coming is that it's an ugly duckling. YMMV

 

[L Ross]

Bob Mika was Chief of Police in the Village of Viola, WI.

 

[Glaciers]

357 Magnum loads in a J-frame S&W are an unnatural act. When these started showing up at quals days at work, I said "INSANITY" to myself. I have fired a few of them, and I have zero desire to own one. Even with Pachmayr grips installed, they are a handful. This, from a guy that owns and loves a Glock 29.

Well there’s always 38’s

 

[Rick H]

Recoil is such a subjective thing. When I carried a 4" S&W Model 66 for duty use we qualified monthly using 38 wadcutters. Our qualification course consisted of 60 rd. PPC and 30 rds. bullseye. Once a quarter I would use my duty ammo (158 R&P JHP for first 2 yrs, and Winchester 140Gr SilverTips after that). This was full strength .357 Magnum ammo before Saami toned it down. My PPC scores dropped some 20 pts with duty ammo, from 560-580's out of 600 to 540-560's. My strong hand would be numb after firing 90 rds. of full house .357 through that 34 oz. revolver.

My carry gun these days is a S&W Shield 40. I carry 180gr. jhp at 950fps out of the short barreled 19 oz. pistol. It has never hurt me like the Model 66 did. I hear lots of folks commenting on how "snappy" the recoil is on the 40 S&W, yet most of them seem ok with 357 duty pistols. I find the 357 decidedly worse recoil wise than the little 40.

My neighbor bought a Scandium S&W snubby in 357 Magnum. He had only fired 38's in it and asked if I had any 357's he could try. He fired the first R&P 158 JHP winced and handed it to me to finish the cylinder. I fired the other 4. It was the most evil uncontrollable handgun I ever fired.

 

[Glaciers]

Rick H says:

Recoil is such a subjective thing.

I mostly carry a 3” SP101 in 357’s 158 grain soft points in my back pocket. But around here it’s a good idea. I will be working up 180 WFN before next summer and they will be full house loads. But in the lighter 2” model 60 when I’m out amongst them I carry 38’s 158 LHP which are more manageable, but I can and have used 357’s in it.

What Rick H says it right: Recoil is a subjective thing. Now I don’t do extended shooting sessions with the Smith but I don’t feel I will need more then 1 cylinder of shells, if I do I’ve got problems. I shot mainly heavily loaded magnums, but certainly enjoy standard 38’s, 44 SPL, and really enjoying the 45 auto rim.

The 3” SP101 is a full pocket load in weight and size but not excessively so. The model 60 is enough smaller and lighter to be noticed in the pocket but just.

 

[JustJim]

I've got a history with .357 J-frames and similar. My dad had his Chief's Special reamed out to .357 back before 1970. (The fellow he got the wild idea from was the local sheriff, who'd re-chambered his 38/44 HD back in 1942, when new 357s were unobtainable.) I suspect Dad shot it once with .357s and went back to 38s. That's what I did, then replaced the cylinder and gave it to a nephew.

I had a Security Industries .357 in the early '80s: great gun, but a handful when loaded with Super Vels (the only .357 I could source where I was at the time). It worked when I needed it to, until one day at the range it didn't work any more.

I ordered a factory .357 J-frames from S&W as soon as it was announced, but after a brief time shot 38s in it. That got swapped for a scandium, which quickly went away when a cop friend wanted it for off-duty carry and offered me his 3" Model 13 (which funnily enough, I recently traded to a cop friend who want it for off-duty carry).

My current consideration of a .357 LCR, knowing I'll only use 38s in it, is more for the weight of the steel frame than a desire to shoot 357s in it.

As for the Model 36, almost 30 years ago I used to shoot at the Lincoln Ike, early mornings when the only other shooter was an older gentleman who's name I never got. Like me, he was a fan of Dean Grinnell's writings, and encouraged me to try a Model 36 as a range gun. DG wrote of shooting one DA at 100 yards, so I worked up til I could keep 5 shots on a paper plate at 100 yards. Then we went looking for optimistic gamblers (mostly shotgunners) who were sure it couldn't be done . . . . Ah, the Good Old Days!

 

[Winelover]

Bob Mika was Chief of Police in the Village of Viola, WI.

When he developed his pocket holsters, he was working law enforcement in Los Angeles. IIRC.

 

[Glaciers]

What ever his history he’s a nice guy. Gave him a call with questions, left a message, called me back within 15 minutes. Answered my questions, I order on line. He called back in 48 hours to thank me for my order and told me when to expect the package. Asked me to give him a call with my opinion.
He’s got customer service well in hand.

 

[CZ93X62]

The SP-101 with Magnum ammo isn't bad at all, IMO. I would call it "K-frame-ish" in character. Lots and lots of 357 ammo run through Model 19s and 66s, and they could get tiresome after 50-60 rounds of that stuff. Same story with the SP-101.

But a J-frame 357? SO. NOT. HAPPENING. Carry 38s? Sure--so I bought the 642 in 38 +P. The J-frame started life as the I-frame, meant originally for the 32 S&W Long. A 1/4" longer frame window created the J-frame in 1950 and enabled the 38 Special to be chambered. History has shown that the 357 Magnum in a K-frame might be a bridge too far, but S&W doubles down and stuffs the 357 into a J-frame. BRILLIANT.

I know my heresy fans have missed my windmill-tilting and conclusion-jumping of late. LONG LIVE HERESY.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

The SP-101 with Magnum ammo isn't bad at all, IMO. I would call it "K-frame-ish" in character. Lots and lots of 357 ammo run through Model 19s and 66s, and they could get tiresome after 50-60 rounds of that stuff. Same story with the SP-101.

But a J-frame 357? SO. NOT. HAPPENING. Carry 38s? Sure--so I bought the 642 in 38 +P. The J-frame started life as the I-frame, meant originally for the 32 S&W Long. A 1/4" longer frame window created the J-frame in 1950 and enabled the 38 Special to be chambered. History has shown that the 357 Magnum in a K-frame might be a bridge too far, but S&W doubles down and stuffs the 357 into a J-frame. BRILLIANT.

I know my heresy fans have missed my windmill-tilting and conclusion-jumping of late. LONG LIVE HERESY.

/\ I couldn't agree more.
The extra weight of the SP101, even in its shortest barrel configuration (2.25") makes it a little easier to tolerate with stout loads. Plus the SP101 is seriously strong.
The 3" and 4" J-frames with a larger set of grips than stock, maybe not too horrible with 357 mag loads. Probably don't want to run high round counts of magnums through those J-frame but for a gun shot primarily with 38 Specials - I think it will work.
But a 1 7/8" barreled J-frame with tiny grips and .357 magnum cartridges- NOT FUN.

For me, an old Speed-Six with a 2.75" barrel or a SP101 with 2.25" barrel is probably the lower floor in terms of size for .357 Mag. YMMV

 

[JWFilips]

Well there were Pachmayr grips on this one and I was not impressed! Nothing will take away the sting of a stoked .357 Mag in a 2" J frame!
My wife has a twin barrel 38 Spec derringer and that too is a nasty hand full

 

[Glaciers]

I personally am in agreement on the J frame with 357, 38’s are what I use in that little pistol. But, I’m always in favor of flexibility. The SP 101 certainly is a tough pistol and gets a diet of both. I like the capability of the full house 357 in the SP 101 making it convenient to keep with simply because of size. For me the J frame is more of a social worker package.

 

[SWISS SHOOTER]

I have an Airweight 38 Special with crimson trace laser sight.

It's the gun I always take along.

 

[CZ93X62]

"Social worker package". I'm stealing and using that term.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

The .357 magnum proved to be a “bridge too far” in the K-frame. I suspect the same holds true for .357 magnums in a J-frame as well but is seen less due to low round counts of magnums actually being fired in J-frames.

This should not be construed as criticism of the J-Frame. I think the snubnose DAO J-frame chambered in 38 Special is an outstanding concept and was well designed.

Just about every other snubnose revolver available ends up larger than the J-frame. The only one that comes close is the Ruger LCR (an innovative gun and a good concept). When the overall small size of the gun is a key factor, the S&W J-frame wins and the Ruger LCR may prove to be its true competitor.

When the criteria allow for a little larger gun, the options open considerably. The Ruger SP101 is an outstanding gun. If one can live with the additional size and weight – it is certainly one of the strongest snubnose revolvers available. The old Colt Detective Special, Cobra or Agent models are options, but they are squarely in the collector’s world these days. The new Kimber K6S is very impressive but they run over $1000 per example, when you can find one.

 

[Glaciers]

Personally I’m not around people or in town much. So my J frame is in the safe most of it’s life. The 3” gun of any kind is a much better call as it’s still concealable and gives a little more form whatever you choose to feed it. The SP 101 in a 2” barrel with the extra weight of the design, is a choice I would personally would not make. If your going to carry the compromise of the extra weight, rarely will the extra 1” of barrel make any difference.
As P&P points out the 2” in the J frame or the LCR make since especially with the weight savings. The SP 3” for me while being carried around the homestead will have full tilt loads in it for furry black creatures. The J frame is not a choice for that kind of need. I used to carry a 4” 29 on a regular basis around here but there was a tendency to kind of put that heavy bugger aside. Got me in trouble once. Another story though. But the SP is handy and unless I’m going up ladders it’s in the back pocket.
My perspective is rural, so it’s going to be different than most. As they say Your Mileage May Very, and probably does.

 

[L Ross]

Personally I’m not around people or in town much. So my J frame is in the safe most of it’s life. The 3” gun of any kind is a much better call as it’s still concealable and gives a little more form whatever you choose to feed it. The SP 101 in a 2” barrel with the extra weight of the design, is a choice I would personally would not make. If your going to carry the compromise of the extra weight, rarely will the extra 1” of barrel make any difference.
As P&P points out the 2” in the J frame or the LCR make since especially with the weight savings. The SP 3” for me while being carried around the homestead will have full tilt loads in it for furry black creatures. The J frame is not a choice for that kind of need. I used to carry a 4” 29 on a regular basis around here but there was a tendency to kind of put that heavy bugger aside. Got me in trouble once. Another story though. But the SP is handy and unless I’m going up ladders it’s in the back pocket.
My perspective is rural, so it’s going to be different than most. As they say Your Mileage May Very, and probably does.

Oooh, oooh, the other another story please?

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Warning - Personal Opinion and preference follows.

For me.....the dividing line falls between pocket carry (in some type of pocket holster) OR holster carry (generally on a belt but still concealed).

Once I step up to holster carry (on a belt), the little 1 7/8" DAO J-frames are no longer the first choice. The real strength of those super compact J-frames is you are more likely to have it when you need it.

 

[SWISS SHOOTER]

When I'm up on Jordan in Griz country I carry a 329 S&W stoked with 300 hardcasts in a tanker holster.

When in people country I carry my airweight Chief's Special stoked with 125 HP in a pocket holster.

I am looking at the S&W 351PD in 22 Magnum RF as it hold 7 rather than 5 and with the special pistol ammo, it would get attention. Just needs a Lazer grip as I have on all my carry pistols to complete it.