Why Full Grown Men Cry

[quicksylver]

Some days things just do not work out.

Of late I have been trying to come up with an alternative to Alliant 2400, as it is next to impossible to get or the LGS wants some crazy price for it.

No pun intended, I set my sights on IMR 4198 and Reloader 7, as of right now I haven’t got any H4198.

Before I forget the guns I am partial to are the 1903 and 1903A3’s in the wildly exotic 30-06 Springfield calibre (European spelling).

I shoot mainly @ 100 yds, with the occasional 200 thrown in.

The gun of choice today was a full military dress, Rock Island, 1920ish vintage with a mint four groove HS ’44 barrel.

The gun was tapped for a scope when I got it so I but on a spare Refield 6.5-20x, fine cross hair with target dot scope.

Two of the boolits I tried today were NOE’s 315 and the Lee 155 2r.

I use the 315 as a control as it ALWAYS shoots good (as you can see).

This game is shot mostly in the head, yes it is a head game.

IF that fourth round had not gone out on target #1 !

And then downhill from there.

Oh well there is always tomorrow.

P.S. All boolits were sized .311, lubed with Ben’s Red and Lightly rolled in Ben’s Liquid Lube

 

[JWFilips]

Dan,
Well that is still pretty good shooting even after seeing target 1 I like Reloader 7 I have good loads worked up for it in most of my rifles. Always seems to shoot good for me.
Actually It is in a dead heat for Number 1 with 2400 in my .243 winchester in my M77 with the New NOE 246-104 bullet. Some days it comes in first place some days the 2400 load does but most times it is a tie.
My problem is different I have 8 lbs of 2400 but only a pound and a half of Rel 7 So I don't experiment with it much until I find a new supply.
Jim

 

[freebullet]

Looks like you had a good day to me. Your worst target is still a group. When you have a day of patterns shot from rifles at 50yds it will put it in perspective for you. Even those days are more fun than going to work.
If I got to go shoot and didn't get shot or blow up a gun(aint happened yet-knock on wood) I'd be inclined to call it a good day.

 

[Ian]

Might be a lube problem (I know, I know, but every rifle and load combination is a law unto itself). What I would try just to eliminate the lube factor (of which your groups are showing classic signs) is to solvent clean the bore and try a mix of 60% beeswax, 40% Vaseline or the OLD nra formula of equal parts canning paraffin, beeswax, and Vaseline on your next 20 rounds. Just lube them by hand and wipe the lube flush with your sizer. Also, pay special attention to the pressure required to seat the bullets and cull any that go in more "easy" than the others, shoot them for a separate group or mark them and make note of your shot sequence at the shooting bench.

 

[sundog]

I've burned A LOT of IMR 4227 in 03/03A3, bought 8# jug at a time. With a 180-200 gr bullets, 21 grains goes ~1650 fps.

 

[quicksylver]

Ian.....I agree wit the lube issue
Eventually I will try your suggestion.
First though I am going to try these. w/o the liquid lube.
I think it may not allow the regular lube
To flow properly,

 

[Ben]

Looks like pretty good shooting to me.
Always a " bazillion " variables to change and
alter if you want to fine tune your loads.

Ben

 

[Ian]

Ian.....I agree wit the lube issue
Eventually I will try your suggestion.
First though I am going to try these. w/o the liquid lube.
I think it may not allow the regular lube
To flow properly,

I think the polybutene in the Lucas grease is building up and purging a little every few rounds, but overall allowing a gradual buildup that is causing erratic bore condition. Only one way to find out if I'm right. Ben's lubes are very good and work in lots of things but nothing works perfectly in everything all the time.

 

[fiver]

accurates 4100 is pretty super close, as in I have swapped it out grain for grain [safely] in a couple of situations.
unfortunately it was hard to get before this situation took hold.
accurate #-9 is not quite the same but I have had good luck with it in many cases where I didn't want the highest of velocity's but wanted a slower launch than unique provides.
I know vita-vouri makes N-110 which is in common use in Europe as a boolit slinger and is not the same as H-110 it's also in the same ball park as 2400 and 4100.
and Ramshot makes Enforcer, which is the exact same powder as AA-4100.

if you remember the tests we run on Ben's Red [and the mixes i made from scratch ingredients,, the E-series of lubes] one of the things I recommended was another 5-10% bees-wax added to the recipe, it helps control the grease/oils better under wider temperature fluxuations.
at the time [airc] Ben also thought it might make the lube just that little bit better.

 

[JWFilips]

Hey: Some Days You shoot ..Some days you don't!
I have read Beagle's "Why Grown Men Cry" all 3 parts many times. I have many times at "50 Yds" made a one hole 10 shot group So To shoot like this I think something is very wrong & it is just luck.
I think Beagle fired all his 223 rounds at 100 yds. have not done that yet...but you are talking about a guy that aspire to... but yet I'm confident it can be done...because I have had a bunch of the best teachers!

 

[Ben]

Ben also thought it might make the lube just that little bit better.

It is common for me to exceed the 50% Beeswax in Ben's Red.

Ben

 

[35 shooter]

Those 315 groups look pretty good to me according to the size of that dime.
As far as lube purge (and this is just me), i'd try a few more groups before i called it that.

I can only speak for my own experience with Ben's Red or Bll, but i'm not experiencing any purge shots with either.
Lol all shots out of the group on my proven loads are "called" flyers before i even look down range....very very rare.
I've only fired about 160 shots with an overcoat of BLL, but groups were as usual.

Of course i know it can always be different strokes for different rifles. It's strange how a certain powder and load can shoot so well in one rifle and be a dog in another sometimes.

 

[Ben]

Rifles that are the same model and caliber and differ by S/N only can have such different likes and dislikes.
Yes, it is odd.

Ben

 

[Ian]

Does make you want to cry sometimes because you could have made a half-inch group...BUT...

Those groups are all really good, I guess some of us don't know when to quit? Lube was one of those final determining factors when I got everything else worked down around an inch and knew most of the other things were right-on. Neck tension also, highly critical. I only mentioned that because I've BTDT and those things were the difference between MOA and hald MOA in several of my guns.

 

[quicksylver]

Neck tension "felt" very good but honestly I prefer military cases.
These were FC, excellent brass IMO but still not as "stiff" in the neck as military.

As for different rifles preferring different loads, it was explained to me once that although
you may have consecutive serial numbered firearms the barrels or for that matter other parts as well
will not necessarily be from the same batch.

This is particularly true of high volume assembly, such as military production.

And yes, all said and done it could very well be my shooting as I still have not got the hang of using scopes.

Thanks for the input guys!

 

[Ian]

I too like Federal brass, a lot, because it reloads well and gives me very good groups, across a broad range of calibers. I'm told that puts me in the minority, but if one thing is true about all this it is that no two of us ever seem to have the same experience. Heck, we could swap rifles with each other and work up loads and have two completely different experiences.

 

[quicksylver]

Ian once again you are spot on.
And it has always amazed me that if you have your rifle or what ever tuned in and pass it to someone else to shoot it does not necessarily hold its zero.

 

[Rick]

Much of that quicksilver has to do with grip and even body mass weight and how those things effect recoil before the bullet exits.

 

[fiver]

I have bought 2 rifles from the same guy now that couldn't get them to shoot worth beans.
both of them have been custom rifles built for big game hunting and both have turned out to be perennial favorites of mine with just a little thought and effort.
I have never shown him the groups I have shot with those rifles and my hunting loads,
but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot prairie dogs out to 350yds with either rifle and expect to make first shot hits 100% of the time.

 

[quicksylver]

Fiver...... I am with you there I have a friend who had, I now have, a nice 1903 MK1.
He had the original barrel taken off and an NOS 2 groove put on so he could shoot cast.
After giving him as much help as he was willing to listen too the best he could do was about 6" @ 100yds.
Being a competitive shoot ,and a good one , he wanted no more of the gun.
He sold it to me, original barrel and all other 1903 parts he had.
I cleaned the bore just to make sure then tried it myself with my "go to" loads.
These are my first two groups @ 100 yds.
Lyman 48 rear, 17 front .
I did show him the groups and others like these with various CB, fortunately he is happy I own it and it shoots like it does.
The only problem I have with the rifle is the ugly scant stock.

It certainly is not as pretty as Ben's Swede.