222 Subsonic

[Josh]

Ian has me interested in shooting subsonic cast bullets, I am going with my 222 instead of the 223 like Ian has. I found a batch of 225646's I cast and sized sometime this life, and put them ahead of 2.5 gr of Titegroup and a Tula SPP. Testing will be done at 25 yds

I don't even know if this will stabilize in a 1-14 twist barrel so I am going to find out. Basically this idea never crossed my mind until I bought a house that is further from the range and has a few houses around it, I was going to buy a 22 cal pellet gun but if I can get my 222 running quiet that is the way I will go.

 

[quicksylver]

Sounds interesting ..keep us posted..

 

[Ian]

My AR is loud, like not hearing safe loud, shooting those out of a 14.5" barrel with a pinned/welded 3-chamber brake. With a .30 cal can screwed on the brake it sounds like a golf clap.

 

[Josh]

Ok, so got back from the range, it is a success/failure...

It was loud as Ian said it would be, slightly more than 22 lr loud, but a chunk of that was it also being supersonic. I shot 20 rounds, almost every single one ran within 5 fps of 1087 FPS.



I had wonderful engraving on the nose which surprised me, after all this is a new Lyman mould...



Here is a look through the scope, no real reason just thought it would look neat.


Now here is the success, I had these bullets at 0.225" and lubed with carnauba red, I ran a batch over the chronograph while I seasoned the bore and got it up to temp. I also moved the scope as it was low, as seen in the picture below. I saved 10 rounds for the 50 yd shooting, there are 2 flyers, I bet Ian and Lamar can tell me why (hint: I had to set the target and reload). So I put the remaining balance of these little pills into about an inch.



What I need to do next:

1) Cast more
2) Lube with LSL
3) Drop the charge to 2.2 gr from 2.5 gr
4) Try again

 

[JWFilips]

Josh,
I would try some sized .226" if possible. I shoot a .226" CBE 55 gr with 2.5 BE In my Rem Sportsman 78 .223 bolt gun Feels like a standard 22 lr Don't know the speed
but seems to be SubSonic
Jim

 

[Josh]

I will be sizing to .226 when I switch to the MX-3 55 gr bullet, that Lyman if I remember just got touched by the .225 die and over the course of 6 months or so it came up to a solid .225

I will probably PB 2 of the MX-3 cavities, if not all of them as I hate 22 cal gas checks...

 

[JWFilips]

Yes My fingers don't work as well as they used to, so 22 gas checks are not a love of mine!

 

[fiver]

another little trick I picked up when going slow is to use a tumble lube laced fairly heavily with graphite.
this has got me down into the 450 fps area without a stuck bullet.
see if you can figure out why that works.

C-red.... I should slap you.... << that hard.

 

[Josh]

another little trick I picked up when going slow is to use a tumble lube laced fairly heavily with graphite.
this has got me down into the 450 fps area without a stuck bullet.
see if you can figure out why that works.

C-red.... I should slap you.... << that hard.

So if I do Graphite lube would I use a half a grain of titegroup? That is just... LOL

In my defense these were lubed months ago, before I started using only Simple Lube

 

[Ian]

OMG. C-red, huh? Buy them books, send them to school................................

I do like that '644 series bullet, they look a little funny but they got the right idea on nose shape.

2.4 grains of TG got me the best of accurate and quiet with the un-checked Lee bullets. I still haven't used pistol primers, still using the Tula 223 primers I have a bunch of, but I need to try the SPP out.

I really think no checks and BLL will do the trick for you and save a LOT of trouble. Push-through size them, one coat of lube, and load them up. You lose a lot of lube space when you delete the gas check and without the check, a lot more conventional lube can wash out of the grooves before the bullet corks the bore. Unless it's C-red and then it just gas cuts along with the driving bands. I'm not saying softer conventional lube WILL wash out, but it can. You'll just have to find out. Darn, more fun shooting/testing to be done!

Oh, and I tried Jim's Graphlox and didn't like it, but in fairness I never used it in .22s. Gummy mess is an apt description. Maybe I wasn't doing it right, but in my testing it builds and builds and then vomits black tar out of the muzzle and repeats. HBN is SO much better. BLL is better than that. BLL boosted with beeswax might be better still because it has more friction and a little more film strength right at the start, jury still out on accuracy improvement with BW. So far the BW addition groups mostly the same, but sometimes better and so far has never done worse.

 

[Josh]

I was honestly surprised with the 10 shot group from that 222, but I could have kicked myself when I saw those 2 fliers and instantly had flashbacks to my 31-255 load workup.

Once I get moved I plan to really get to stepping with this, but right now my lead pot is not available. I am hoping to use just BLL or a version of that, just for simplicity.

 

[Ian]

Not having to fool with checks, base-first sizing, or conventional lube is one of the BIG selling points for me with this sort of thing.

Hey, so the 1-in-14 twist looks like it's gonna work, doesn't it? COOL. Ya never know for sure until you try.

 

[Josh]

Yeah the 1-14 seems to have no issues, I was wondering if things were going to hit sideways. Has it been your experience that a standard bullet without check is as accurate? I have a 4 cavity MX-3 but they are all GC, I would hate to send it out to get PB'd

 

[Ian]

I'm not really the expert on it, only tried a few different times and with .30 and .45 caliber at that. Generally, loads were not extremely accurate without a check. PB'd one cavity of a couple of moulds and they seemed to do a lot better, not sure if it's way the powder interacts with the base or if it has to do with balance/stability. That's why I'm so happy to get any sort of reasonable grouping with the Lee (and as of a few minutes ago, now the MP 5.56 NATO bullet) without any checks. I'll admit I haven't played a lot with un-checked bullets in rifles, but the times I have anything over 1K fps was pretty bad. Also, the only other time I messed with .22s, and why I have the setup for .223, was a few years ago in a co-worker's Rossi break-action and the RCBS 55-grainer...with checks.

These little .22s do fine for my purposes, which aren't all that demanding. 4 moa isn't great but there's some work I need to do and if I tighten the 30% flyers in my Lee bullet groups they'll easily be 2 MOA loads. The MP NATO bullet is doing 2 MOA now.

 

[fiver]

shoot it without them.
going slow avoids all the issues.
the bottom of the drive band steps in and becomes the base.

Ian I know you got the base lube for the graphite already made up.
graphlox is just gonna act like heavy thick alox only worse at the lower velocitys.

 

[fiver]

I don't know why going slow is so much fun sometimes.
when you really only need 50-60yd shoestring straight type loads going @ 700-750 fps seems to do the job like nothing else.

 

[Ian]

It's particularly fun with a registered muffler, otherwise it doesn't quite have the same appeal to me. Lobbing NOE 247s out of my break-action .30-30s with the long barrels... using seven grains of Unique....is pretty easy on the ears but not quiet by any means. Being able to pop off ten rounds across the hood of my car, in my driveway, 75 yards from the neighbor's house, at 9:00 PM on a Monday, without them having a clue, is priceless.

 

[Josh]

I wasn't expecting the noise level 2.5 gr gave for sure, I was expecting something way more quiet. Heck my 300 BLK sounded quieter with about 5 gr of TG and a 255 gr bullet.

Ian, if you want this 75 gr mould I have I can send it to you, you would treat it well and if it doesn't work as good as the 69 gr send it back and you aren't out anything.

 

[Ian]

Yeah, I wasn't expecting it either, which is why I took the chance to give you a head's up. You probably won't be shooting that load at your new digs without a can, but the good news is that even though it's loud a .30-caliber can easily soaks it right up and brings it down to the level of silenced .22 LR.

I didn't know you found the mould, I did see the picture and it looks really good. Especially the six cavity part. I'd love to try it out, the weight is exactly what I envisioned to start out with (and why I bought a 7 twist barrel), but the Lee mould was cheap and in stock at the time and also available in six cavity version which is a HUGE plus. Do you still have my address?